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Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

business.financialpost.com

171–180 of 629 posts

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#171
Article summary: Vancouver is expensive, their young, creative and fun population will leave because they can't afford a house. Let's burn down its antique building restrictions, and build big skyscrapers where no neighbor knows each other, now the young, creative and fun population can live in a gray place and become old, dull and boring.

Hope they can read a little of Jane Jacobs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_and_Life_of_Great_Am...

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#172
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how much do your 'Occupancy Police' cost to administer such a system ? If it relies on a property owner filling in a form, they're just going to lie to avoid the cost and without someone going round to every single house and monitoring it for weeks and months of the year, you have no way to detect people avoiding the tax. Super high property tax when I'm not there? Simple, employ a cleaner on some minimal wage an…

I used to live in Florida and amazingly enough the homestead exemption works pretty well. I'm sure there are some people abusing it, but it's effective overall. You can only have it on one home and it doesn't apply to businesses so the only real fraud angle would be to live out of state and take the exemption on a single Florida property. You have to be a citizen or permanent alien resident which weeds out foreign bu…

You can purchase Canadian permanent residency for $800,000 through Quebec's Immigrant Investor Program. This has a big impact on Canadian tax policy because there is no way you can discriminate between foreign and domestic ownership - foreign investors can simply buy a PR card and avoid punitive taxation of foreigners. There are still foreigners in the normative sense of the word, as in they don't and have never lived in Canada, but in the eyes of the law, they are the same as an permanent immigrant.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#173

If having essentially no affordable housing rendered a city an economic ghost town, then much of the Bay area and Manhattan would be "ghost towns" - which, in turn, would lower housing prices radically. What might happen to Vancouver is probably similar to other major cities with housing crunches but an otherwise desirable economic climate: lower wage workers will be displaced further from the city and forced to comm…

The problem in Vancouver is the house prices are not driven by economic activity in the city itself. Bay area and Manhattan prices are a product of the local economies. Vancouver prices are a product of speculation and wealthy people who live/have property there but don't work there.

So why do speculators choose Vancouver of all places to speculate in?

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#174
post #159

It blows my mind that the internety tech industry, of all industries, is so heavily concentrated in a handful of physical locations around the world. There's this vicious cycle where companies think they need to be in one of these places to attract the best talent, and employees think they need to live in one of these places to have the best career options. Sometimes when I'm at Red Door in SOMA, overhearing twenty d…

It's easy to complain about zoning, tax policies, NIMBY-ism, lack of investment in public transit, etc. etc. But the reality is that you could turn all sorts of dials to increase the supply of available housing over the course of years and decades and you'd still have a situation where not everyone could live in an affordable condo/apartment in whatever $TRENDY_CITY. I suspect that the current concentration of certai…

For sure. And the reality also is that people can take job offers and/or move to new cities a lot faster than builders can build housing.

I don't think building more is a panacea that would suddenly mean two-bedrooms in Cow Hollow rent for $1,000 in 2017. That said, restricting market rate construction certainly only makes things worse. And building more would help at least a little.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#175
Vancouver's problem isn't the house prices. The problem is to a large extent caused by the author of this piece, the Hootsuite CEO. The few tech companies in vancouver don't pay. They expect the city to provide them a steady flow of over-educated 20-somethings willing to work long hours for only slightly more than rent. For the last 15 years the city has provided just that. The complaints now are that those 20-somethings want to own stuff. They want a house. They want to own a dog that isn't left alone 10+ hours every day. They want families. So it is time to let them go and demand the city provide a new flock.

What every company in Vancouver seems to want is an employee who is desperate for work but also independently wealthy. That might seem a conflict but in Vancouver it is normal. There are thousands of young people here who are supported by parents who have enjoyed the rise in house prices. They are desperate for work, but don't much care about the pay because they have support. Hootsuite's problem is that many of those kids are now in their thirties, mom and dad have moved, and they want to have an actual life of their own. That cannot happen at 30k in a city like Vancouver.

(Lets see how long it takes for this comment to hit a nerve. Hoot is a social media company with eyes everywhere.)

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#176
post #82

It seems like many major cities of the world are experiencing this problem, and no city has been able to come up with a good solution. It always leads to displacement and newspaper articles about displacement, but no real solutions. Here are a couple of solutions: 1. Build really tall. Hasn't worked out all that great in Hong Kong, though. 2. Rent control. This is often unfair and inflates price of non-rent controlle…

German has some solutions: http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2011/06/how-germany-achieved...

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#177
The price-to-income ratio, a good indicator of affordability is quite ridiculous here. It should be around 4, i.e your home value should be 4 times your gross household yearly income, its closer to 12 here. I believe in this, and though my family makes a good income, in order to meet this ratio I had to move further out to Richmond. Don't regret it at all, since it eases the stress of requiring two well paid jobs just to live a decent life. But the lack of available rental properties, rampant foreign speculation, low interest rates is a pretty perfect storm.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem in Vancouver is the house prices are not driven by economic activity in the city itself. Bay area and Manhattan prices are a product of the local economies. Vancouver prices are a product of speculation and wealthy people who live/have property there but don't work there.

So why do speculators choose Vancouver of all places to speculate in?

I can't answer that, but I can add that it is quite common in London too. I can see the allure of the "park my millions in property in the world financial capital" investment strategy, but I don't get the Vancouver version. That's not meant as a slight on Vancouver.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#179

Vancouver's problem isn't the house prices. The problem is to a large extent caused by the author of this piece, the Hootsuite CEO. The few tech companies in vancouver don't pay. They expect the city to provide them a steady flow of over-educated 20-somethings willing to work long hours for only slightly more than rent. For the last 15 years the city has provided just that. The complaints now are that those 20-someth…

Man, lots of parallels to game-dev here. You see an almost similar problem, albiet that it means the average career is ~3 years instead of being a geographical migration.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#180
post #170

[deleted]

The key point you are missing is that housing is being bought almost entirely by people who do not live there and never will, either as investment vehicles, or a way to safely move money out of china (real estate is one of the few things china allows Chinese citizens to invest in outside of china). They have no incentive to even rent, because of both frozen value property taxes, and the house generally forming a small part of their total wealth, generally being held as a rainy day nest egg. There are entire city blocks of high rises in Vancouver that have no lights on at night, no traffic in the morning, and no cars in their parking lots. Your entire post addresses arguments nobody made.

But if you had read the article you would already know that....

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