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Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

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Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#81

Post by flockonus »

jamespo wrote: post #46
pascalmemories wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how much do your 'Occupancy Police' cost to administer such a system ? If it relies on a property owner filling in a form, they're just going to lie to avoid the cost and without someone going round to every single house and monitoring it for weeks and months of the year, you have no way to detect people avoiding the tax. Super high property tax when I'm not there? Simple, employ a cleaner on some minimal wage an…

Well let's just abandon all taxation by that argument

Why would you? Tax is a very effective mechanism to control economy. And don't have to think on extremes even! Very wealthy people are buying condos there just because it's the best (passive) investment for their cash. If you increase tax for vacant property it will incentivize selling over time,or at least renting.. more offer with less cost.

In a macro economical sense Canada already profited from getting foreign $ invested in buying those properties anyway, time to make Vancouver livable.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#82

Post by msvan »

It seems like many major cities of the world are experiencing this problem, and no city has been able to come up with a good solution. It always leads to displacement and newspaper articles about displacement, but no real solutions.

Here are a couple of solutions:

1. Build really tall. Hasn't worked out all that great in Hong Kong, though.

2. Rent control. This is often unfair and inflates price of non-rent controlled apartments.

3. Tax the living crap out of property speculation. Not sure if this has been tried anywhere, and I'm sure it would be unpopular among many middle class home owners as well. I'm still rooting for Georgism.

4. Accept that it's a lost cause and move on to the next underdog city that will stay un-gentrified for the next 10 years.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#83

Post by trgn »

branchless wrote: post #27

Come to Montreal! It's great here. No way would I want to pledge the rest of my life to a bank in exchange for the right to exist. Rent controls here. It's odd: it's like the state understands that banks are bastards. Montreal has some issues with organised crime but nothing compared to the organised crime of banking / money laundering through land. I don't have to pay some gangster $1MM for a shack. Leave the boomer…

I visited Montreal a few years ago. I really really enjoyed it.

The city was a great mix. Big enough to wow a hick like me, but also felt accommodating, friendly, and cosy.

Great leisurely bicycling next to the river and canals.

All the french makes it feel like I'd traveled much further. I also tried making an effort to speak it, and unlike when visiting France, people actually had the good taste (or angelic patience) to indulge me.

It was somewhat expensive, but not obnoxiously so.

I know tourist experience a place differently than residents, but I can totally get it why it's a desirable place.

I did this with my wife for an anniversary. We're most certainly coming back when hitting a nice round number again.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#84

Post by [deleted] »

Shivetya wrote: post #50
legutierr wrote: post #3

> There are already enough houses and condos in the city with no lights on because no one actually lives in them. To me, there seems to be a pretty obvious public policy response. Institute a very high property tax, which is abated on some kind of curve according to the amount of time the owner or tenants spend living in a property, with no tax being due if the property is legitimately occupied for more than, say, te…

I would be careful here. Laws like this are close to demonstrating a lack of respect for property rights and that is not a good direction for any democracy. We have always had areas where the cost of housing was too high but the reactionary idea of taxing it to death is in effect the idea of that some property rights are important but others are not. If any such idea was pushed then be sure that protection is applied…

[deleted]

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#85

Post by potatolicious »

epimetheus wrote: post #51
branchless wrote: post #27

Come to Montreal! It's great here. No way would I want to pledge the rest of my life to a bank in exchange for the right to exist. Rent controls here. It's odd: it's like the state understands that banks are bastards. Montreal has some issues with organised crime but nothing compared to the organised crime of banking / money laundering through land. I don't have to pay some gangster $1MM for a shack. Leave the boomer…

I wonder how much climate is playing a factor in Vancouver's issues. Just from my perspective, I'd love to move to Vancouver, but would never, ever consider Montreal, not because it's not a beautiful city, but because of the harsh winters. Other people don't seem to really care about weather extremes or scenery, etc. I have no insight into these real estate investors dumping money into property, sure if they aren't l…

I'd argue climate plays a bigger factor for people who actually want to live in Vancouver, rather than absentee investors.

That said, having grown up in Vancouver, I'd consider Montreal - seeing the sun in the fall/winter is a really nice concept I've gotten used to. I've gotten used to harsh cold of the east coast, but I never got used to the dreary vast grayness even though I spent most of my childhood in it.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#86

Post by ghaff »

iheartmemcache wrote: post #72
ghaff wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of thing is true broadly. It's a bit more complicated in California because the South Bay is also very popular and very expensive, but the trendy areas of many downtowns have, over a relatively short period, become very popular with, among others, a certain young & educated demographic that really has turned them into luxury goods. This has arguably long been the case in some places like Manhattan. Going ba…

That 495 tech belt thing was because office park space was so cheap and having 75,000 sqft was required back during the Sun and Digital days. No one really chose to live out there after graduating for college, and if they did move out there it was either reluctantly for a shorter commute or because employees were further on in life (e.g. 30-somethings then would consider suburbia ideal; in my late 20s, early 30s now…

>No one really chose to live out there after graduating for college

Sure they did. I knew relatively few people who chose to live in Boston/Cambridge after graduation in the 80s. Yes, some of this was because of the commute to their jobs in Metro-West. But I knew lots of people (including myself) who never seriously considered living in the city post-graduation.

As you say, places like Kendall and Central Square weren't exactly desirable locales. Both the state of much of Boston/Cambridge (and even Somerville) and the general attitude toward urban living among certain demographics has obviously shifted.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#87

Post by dragonwriter »

Shivetya wrote: post #50
legutierr wrote: post #3

> There are already enough houses and condos in the city with no lights on because no one actually lives in them. To me, there seems to be a pretty obvious public policy response. Institute a very high property tax, which is abated on some kind of curve according to the amount of time the owner or tenants spend living in a property, with no tax being due if the property is legitimately occupied for more than, say, te…

I would be careful here. Laws like this are close to demonstrating a lack of respect for property rights and that is not a good direction for any democracy. We have always had areas where the cost of housing was too high but the reactionary idea of taxing it to death is in effect the idea of that some property rights are important but others are not. If any such idea was pushed then be sure that protection is applied…

It's perhaps a small step in a direction away from the pure capitalist conception of how property rights should be structured, but such a movement is no more a sign of lack of respect for property rights than the move to the capitalist model of such rights from prior models was.

It's not like God handed down the capitalist model of property rights carved on stone tablets...that model is just one stage in the continuous historical evolution of the concept of property rights.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#88

Post by ido »

jlangenauer wrote: post #44
ucaetano wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Berlin's values have risen to the point where rents are on average 10 euros per square meter. You can rent a 100 sqm for only 1000 euros per month!!!! You can't get 40 sqm for that same amount in Paris.

I moved to Berlin recently from Sydney. My rent is 60% of what I was paying in Sydney, and for a nicer apartment. I can't believe more people aren't moving here. (Maybe I shouldn't say so. Keep the secret to those who know.)

It's not much of a secret? Berlin has been growing fast these past few years, as are real estate prices:

http://www.thelocal.de/20150707/politicians-struggle-to-keep...

And while rents are still cheap compared to other large western cities, they went (and are going) through about the same curve as these more expensive cities - it simply started lower here.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#89

Post by TragicJam »

api_or_ipa wrote: post #55

As someone who just moved from Vancouver to the Bay Area, it's obvious the issue isn't housing. It's income. My apartment in trendy yaletown was $2350/month for a very nice 2 bed, 2 bath place within 10 mins of anything in downtown. Try finding something even remotely as nice around Silicon Valley. The issue we should be tackling is the low wages seen in the area. The same developer who could make $100k USD in the va…

I've always considered Vancouver (tech) salaries to be fairly competitive compared to the rest of the Canada. (I'm a Vancouver dev)

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#90

Post by AYBABTME »

branchless wrote: post #27

Come to Montreal! It's great here. No way would I want to pledge the rest of my life to a bank in exchange for the right to exist. Rent controls here. It's odd: it's like the state understands that banks are bastards. Montreal has some issues with organised crime but nothing compared to the organised crime of banking / money laundering through land. I don't have to pay some gangster $1MM for a shack. Leave the boomer…

Problem is salary in Montreal are ridiculously low, and taxes in Quebec are higher than Ontario/British Colombia. Higher taxes should come with the benefit of more services: the health system is clogged and for non-french speaking families, the education system isn't the most friendly.
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