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Valentine's Day Special: Bye Bye Tinder, Flirting in the Support Channel

stackfield.com

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Re: Valentine's Day Special: Bye Bye Tinder, Flirting in the Support Channel

#11

Post by vinceguidry »

dudifordMann wrote: post #8

Aww that was so cute, and only a hint of stalking... That whole entry read much creepier than I bet they intended, and might speak to sexism on the web (due to the fact that this is supposed to be a support channel). It would be interesting if they did this experiment with a fictitious "Carl" employee, to see if female users flirted in the same way.

If you want to call it sexism.

I have a female friend who gets hit on virtually constantly. She works for AT&T, and has described lines of hopefuls outside her door when she goes into the office. (she now works mostly from home)

She never pays for lunch, never pays for dinner. Men offer her free trips to different countries. She really is that attractive. But women who aren't quite that attractive get hit on all the time too, maybe not to the same extent as my friend does, but still a lot, in places that people would consider inappropriate or unprofessional.

It's pretty much ubiquitous. So ubiquitous that even calling it 'sexism' almost seems to downplay it. Because these little flirtatious interactions are easily hid from other people, particularly other guys, it's easy for guys, who are never the recipients of similar attention, to remain unaware of, or worse, fool themselves into believing that women are not being constantly assessed for the potential for romantic or sexual liaison.

My friend started highlighting it for me, and then I started seeing it everywhere.

Re: Valentine's Day Special: Bye Bye Tinder, Flirting in the Support Channel

#12

Post by JoeAltmaier »

vinceguidry wrote: post #11
dudifordMann wrote: post #8

Aww that was so cute, and only a hint of stalking... That whole entry read much creepier than I bet they intended, and might speak to sexism on the web (due to the fact that this is supposed to be a support channel). It would be interesting if they did this experiment with a fictitious "Carl" employee, to see if female users flirted in the same way.

If you want to call it sexism. I have a female friend who gets hit on virtually constantly. She works for AT&T, and has described lines of hopefuls outside her door when she goes into the office. (she now works mostly from home) She never pays for lunch, never pays for dinner. Men offer her free trips to different countries. She really is that attractive. But women who aren't quite that attractive get hit on all the…

A tragedy played out every day, for sure. I wonder in all that, about the part where she accepts all this attention, letting guys pay for everything. What if she didn't play along?

I know, blaming the victim. But the social game is complex, and she is definitely a part of it.

Re: Valentine's Day Special: Bye Bye Tinder, Flirting in the Support Channel

#13

Post by kelukelugames »

ethanbond wrote: post #6
ascorbic wrote: post #4

This is a bit odd. The tone of the post is "isn't this funny" when really it should be "look at the crap that female support staff have to put up with".

Probably trying to find a balance between badtalking their customers and sensibly bringing up an important topic. Thus why half the comments are saying they were speaking harshly about their customers, half are saying it's not serious enough in tone. It seems obvious, based on the last sentence, that they think this is something that must be addressed.

People are sensitive. They snap at the smallest hint that their behavior is wrong. Even if the behavior is only mildly inappropriate.

Re: Valentine's Day Special: Bye Bye Tinder, Flirting in the Support Channel

#14

Post by untog »

dkyc wrote: post #5

Hm. Of course it's unprofessional to hit on a support agent, but the way this blog-post is shit-talking about their very own customers (even joking that one of them is probably too poor for champagne because they are on the free-side of their freemium plan) seems absolutely bad to me. Edit: Especially since the product focusses on being " end-to-end-encrypted " and privacy minded, and they just purposely "leak" their…

That's why I'm glad they did this. Tone of the post notwithstanding, it's a great example of the weird sexism that exists online, and I think they deserve credit for showing it, even at the cost of the ego of their own customers.

Re: Valentine's Day Special: Bye Bye Tinder, Flirting in the Support Channel

#16

Post by untog »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #12
vinceguidry wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to call it sexism. I have a female friend who gets hit on virtually constantly. She works for AT&T, and has described lines of hopefuls outside her door when she goes into the office. (she now works mostly from home) She never pays for lunch, never pays for dinner. Men offer her free trips to different countries. She really is that attractive. But women who aren't quite that attractive get hit on all the…

A tragedy played out every day, for sure. I wonder in all that, about the part where she accepts all this attention, letting guys pay for everything. What if she didn't play along? I know, blaming the victim. But the social game is complex, and she is definitely a part of it.

I've talked to a few girls about this. While some are absolutely just out for all the freebies they can get, others have said that men will get increasingly aggressive when you turn down offers for stuff like that - like they insist on being "a provider" and you turning that down is an insult to their manhood.

Seems like a no-win situation all round, really. If you take it, you're encouraging his behaviour (and making him feel like you're indebted to him). If you reject it you're going to find out how he deals with rejection, which, particularly in drunken scenarios, can literally be dangerous to you.

Re: Valentine's Day Special: Bye Bye Tinder, Flirting in the Support Channel

#17

Post by vinceguidry »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #12
vinceguidry wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to call it sexism. I have a female friend who gets hit on virtually constantly. She works for AT&T, and has described lines of hopefuls outside her door when she goes into the office. (she now works mostly from home) She never pays for lunch, never pays for dinner. Men offer her free trips to different countries. She really is that attractive. But women who aren't quite that attractive get hit on all the…

A tragedy played out every day, for sure. I wonder in all that, about the part where she accepts all this attention, letting guys pay for everything. What if she didn't play along? I know, blaming the victim. But the social game is complex, and she is definitely a part of it.

This is her life. She can't stop the guys from hitting on her, short of doing awful things like downplaying her looks or hiding herself away.

I wear a suit and tie to work every day. I didn't really understand her position until I started job hunting. I like wearing suits. I own five of them, three are custom made. Now I have to make a decision. Do I wear a suit and tie to my in-person job interviews?

Coders seem to have an irrational hatred of suits and ties for some reason. The conservative choice would be to wear a polo shirt and slacks to my interviews. But to do that would put me in a weird position. Once I get the job, am I going to start wearing my suits again? When, the very first day? Or hide them away in the closet until I feel ready to?

Appearance is political, and therefore dangerous. But it's also very personal, you wind up wanting to take the risks anyway just to "be who you are". To purposefully choose to be less attractive feels like you're doing violence to yourself. The only real choice, once people start noticing you and complimenting you and you start noticing what it's doing for your life, is to keep going with it.

You can't just turn it off. You can choose to, but it never feels good to do that, and you're just going to face the same decision tomorrow. I, and she, would rather deal with the consequences of being really attractive than to stop. That includes being accepting of other's gifts, others' attention.

When she tells me about her experiences, she's not complaining. She's noting something that she's already been dealing with for years. She's had the internal conversations with herself, should she downplay it, should she present less of herself to the world. Should she stop letting guys express their appreciation for her. Over and over again, for years.

They're hard questions to contemplate, and there's only one real answer.

Re: Valentine's Day Special: Bye Bye Tinder, Flirting in the Support Channel

#18

Post by dmm »

kelukelugames wrote: post #13
ethanbond wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably trying to find a balance between badtalking their customers and sensibly bringing up an important topic. Thus why half the comments are saying they were speaking harshly about their customers, half are saying it's not serious enough in tone. It seems obvious, based on the last sentence, that they think this is something that must be addressed.

People are sensitive. They snap at the smallest hint that their behavior is wrong. Even if the behavior is only mildly inappropriate.

The problem is that society equates being sexist with being evil or bad, the actions of sexist people as being inherently evil, and the words and opinions of sexist people as dismissable out-of-hand.

So when you point out a sexist action the target of your comment interprets that comment as you saying, "You are evil. Your actions are evil and anything you say is not true."

The truth is that even well meaning people who want to treat others well and are willing to learn still do insensitive or discriminatory things but the language people use to point this out is very toxic and often assumes malice.

Re: Valentine's Day Special: Bye Bye Tinder, Flirting in the Support Channel

#20

Post by kelukelugames »

untog wrote: post #16
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tragedy played out every day, for sure. I wonder in all that, about the part where she accepts all this attention, letting guys pay for everything. What if she didn't play along? I know, blaming the victim. But the social game is complex, and she is definitely a part of it.

I've talked to a few girls about this. While some are absolutely just out for all the freebies they can get, others have said that men will get increasingly aggressive when you turn down offers for stuff like that - like they insist on being "a provider" and you turning that down is an insult to their manhood. Seems like a no-win situation all round, really. If you take it, you're encouraging his behaviour (and makin…

Media encourages male entitlement. Movies teach us persistence is the key to winning a woman's heart. Remember the cop character from Jessica Jones? He increases courtship aggressively with each rejection.

1. Cop, under mind control, tries to kill Trish Walker. 2. Cop stalks Trish to apologize. 3. Trish is frightened and tell him to leave. 4. Cop continues to stalk. 5. Cop and Trish hook up.

Step 5 should be Trish maces cop, and he loses his badge.

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