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Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

business.financialpost.com

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Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#11
post #4

Where does the youth diaspora in Vancouver lead to? The suburbs? Other cities in Canada or the US?

A lot of the young people go back to Asia for better jobs after graduating. Silicon Valley and Seattle are popular destinations. Also some move to Toronto or Montreal.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#12

I'm curious how this problem is unique to Vancouver. Berlin's real-estate values have risen some 40% in just the last 7 years or so. New York City, in the 10 years I lived there, had an enormous escalation in what you get for the same rent payment, even adjusted for inflation. Big cities deal with this all over, so how do they deal with this "problem," or is Vancouver somehow unique in other ways?

That was going to be my question.

I mean, look at the Bay Area. They command some of the highest rents in the country, and many tech-sector workers are able to "get by" because of higher salaries from their employers. Of course, if you're not in the tech sector, you're forced to live in more affordable outskirts, like East Bay.

In NYC, they have fantastic transit, so if you don't live in Manhattan, you can still get to work relatively easily. That infrastructure investment has helped NYC maintain its desirability.

Meanwhile, Toronto has a similar problem to Vancouver, except we're building tons of condos. As long as you adjust your outlook to realize that you may only be able to afford a condominium (to buy or rent), you can make it work. Otherwise, you can move to the suburbs, but our transit is garbage, so good luck with that.

Of course, I've simplified my points and glossed over the nuances. But I think the solution is really: 1) Higher density housing (i.e. high-rise residential) 2) Much better transit 3) Options for affordable rent-subsidized housing in these developments

If you do those things, I think you'll make it easier for millenials to choose to stay, and still encourage a diverse community that's not made up of just high-income tech or finance workers. Places like Hong Kong, Tokyo, NYC, Singapore, and many more seem to be thriving cities, and I think those are the factors they have in common.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#13
post #4

Where does the youth diaspora in Vancouver lead to? The suburbs? Other cities in Canada or the US?

I went to UBC, Vancouver from my undergrad. A large part of my friends moved to the US (since the exchange rate works in your favor). Calgary and Toronto are also popular.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#14

I'm curious how this problem is unique to Vancouver. Berlin's real-estate values have risen some 40% in just the last 7 years or so. New York City, in the 10 years I lived there, had an enormous escalation in what you get for the same rent payment, even adjusted for inflation. Big cities deal with this all over, so how do they deal with this "problem," or is Vancouver somehow unique in other ways?

Berlin's values have risen to the point where rents are on average 10 euros per square meter.

You can rent a 100 sqm for only 1000 euros per month!!!!

You can't get 40 sqm for that same amount in Paris.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#15
post #5

I'm curious how this problem is unique to Vancouver. Berlin's real-estate values have risen some 40% in just the last 7 years or so. New York City, in the 10 years I lived there, had an enormous escalation in what you get for the same rent payment, even adjusted for inflation. Big cities deal with this all over, so how do they deal with this "problem," or is Vancouver somehow unique in other ways?

I think Vancouver's problem is that they don't have a strong economy otherwise. Berlin and new York are bad but at least they offer well paying jobs. That's what I gathered from a coworker who used to live in Vancouver.

Exactly. I'm currently working as a software engineer here, and the average wage is significantly lower than what Seattle companies offer (even if you ignore the difference in exchange rate). This combined with the housing affordability crisis makes it easy to leave.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#16

I'm curious how this problem is unique to Vancouver. Berlin's real-estate values have risen some 40% in just the last 7 years or so. New York City, in the 10 years I lived there, had an enormous escalation in what you get for the same rent payment, even adjusted for inflation. Big cities deal with this all over, so how do they deal with this "problem," or is Vancouver somehow unique in other ways?

That was going to be my question. I mean, look at the Bay Area. They command some of the highest rents in the country, and many tech-sector workers are able to "get by" because of higher salaries from their employers. Of course, if you're not in the tech sector, you're forced to live in more affordable outskirts, like East Bay. In NYC, they have fantastic transit, so if you don't live in Manhattan, you can still get…

Toronto's transit is indeed pretty trash. I want to move down to the city but I'm split on whether to put in a down-payment for a condo or piss away my equity by renting. They say the condo market is very volatile right now. Not sure how true this is because I am not very well versed on the subject.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#17

I'm curious how this problem is unique to Vancouver. Berlin's real-estate values have risen some 40% in just the last 7 years or so. New York City, in the 10 years I lived there, had an enormous escalation in what you get for the same rent payment, even adjusted for inflation. Big cities deal with this all over, so how do they deal with this "problem," or is Vancouver somehow unique in other ways?

I'm in London now but used to be in Auckland. 40% over 7 years sounds blissfully slow after the insanity of Auckland - a city facing a very similar situation to Vancouver.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#19
Vancouver real-estate is like buying gold for foreign investors, without paying tax.

"suggesting the typical wealthy foreign family buying Vancouver real estate pays little or no income or capital gains tax"

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/ho...

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#20
> are warning that it’s going to be nearly impossible to develop this business into anything meaningful unless the affordability question is addressed.

one way to address it, and I know this is crazy guys just bear with me, is that these tech leaders could start paying more money. No hope to afford a condo at 75k a year? how about at 150?

Vancouver is simply not that much better than Seattle that I would go back. The salary difference is just too high, especially with the favorable tax situation in washington and the lousy dollar.

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