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Zenefits Software Helped Brokers Cheat On Licensing Process

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Re: Zenefits Software Helped Brokers Cheat On Licensing Process

#81

Post by phonon »

trevmckendrick wrote: post #68

This is being way overblown IMO. If you've worked at a big, regulated company, you know there are tons of trainings that you have to do. Often said training provide little to no value, other than covering the ass (CYA'ing) of the employer. But what's worse: these programs will sometimes log you out if you're not paying 100% attention. Everyone I knew working at our Big 4 accounting firm would do our real work while t…

LIC-EN-SING

This isn't some perfunctory blah-blah training.

Unlike professions where you are expected to get a post-college degree and pass a multi-day difficult test given once or twice a year, all you need to become a health insurance broker is take some classes (in person or online) for a few hours, pass a test (which you can retake as often as you like) and pay ~$100. That's it!

Zenefits is large enough they could actually not treat licensing as a nuisance (gotta SELL SELL SELL) but could have had a full time in-person instructor give a week+long onboarding/training/prelicensing class for every new sales-person. You know, so that people who are expected to be explaining the intricacies of health care laws and pro and cons of $100,000+ yearly group policies might actually know a little of what they are talking about.

How many of those accountants didn't study ACCOUNTING for at least 52 hours?

Re: Zenefits Software Helped Brokers Cheat On Licensing Process

#82

Post by igurari »

x0x0 wrote: post #49
nostrademons wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It reminds me a bit of the Ben Horowitz essay "Why I did not go to jail" http://www.bhorowitz.com/why_i_did_not_go_to_jail In general, laws are not something you want to fuck around with as a startup. You can break proprieties , you can do things that will piss certain people off (you're almost guaranteed to piss off your competitors if you're doing anything interesting, for example), and typical business ethics assu…

because I remembered reading it, there's a wee bit more to the story than Ben shares. It took a while to find it since Bloomberg reorganized their site [1] but here you go [2]. tl;dr: what Sharlene really went to jail for was more than shifting grant dates around (some by more than 60 days, which is more than a month last time I checked.) She appears to have changed grant and exercise dates both to increase income an…

Ben doesn't share that backstory, but it's irrelevant to his point. He is suggesting that he might have gone to jail by association with her and having done something illegal at his own company. Hence his statement:

"Since we had the same head of finance, we almost certainly would have been investigated.... The whole thing was a case of the old saying: “When the paddy wagon pulls up to the house of ill repute, it doesn’t matter what you are doing. Everybody goes to jail.” Once the SEC decided that most technology company stock option procedures were not as desired, the jail sentences were handed out arbitrarily."

So even if she did much worse things at her old company, the SEC could have decided that he broke the law too (even if in a less major way), and should go to jail too.

Re: Zenefits Software Helped Brokers Cheat On Licensing Process

#83

Post by ceejayoz »

iaw wrote: post #32
jefftchan wrote: post #7

https://www.ycombinator.com/ethics/ > Some examples of ethical behavior we expect from founders are: > ... > - Not using misleading, illegal or dishonest sales tactics. > ... Does this mean Parker is no longer a YC Founder, if the allegations turn out to be true?

I don't think any of their sales tactics fell under "misleading, illegal, or dishonest." It was their California pre-certification practices that was blatantly illegal.

Well, that still falls under the "Not behaving in a way that damages the reputation of his/her company or of YC" and "Generally behaving in a professional and upstanding way" rules listed on that page.

Re: Zenefits Software Helped Brokers Cheat On Licensing Process

#84

Post by free2rhyme214 »

tyre wrote: post #31
ShaneWilton wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That blog post is one of the best advertisements I've ever seen for a tech company. If I weren't happy where I am, I'd apply for a position immediately. I get that moving fast and breaking things works for some products, but I wish more companies had the same attitude as you.

Glad you liked it! I'm now building software for local government and we've naturally taken that ethos to our new company. If you are ever looking for another opportunity, check us out http://seneca.systems

CRM for government reminds me of the Ted Talk where a guy said the government should use source control. We're not there yet but it's a step in the right direction.

You guys should seriously consider using resellers and distributors btw. Gov't purchasing agents always request three competitive bids.

Re: Zenefits Software Helped Brokers Cheat On Licensing Process

#85

Post by randomdrake »

jasode wrote: post #3

Another source[1] had more info about " The Macro ": Many of our California sales representatives received access to a software tool called a “Macro” that may have allowed them to complete mandatory online pre-licensing education courses offered by a third-party test preparation provider in less than the legally required 52 total hours. The Macro functioned to keep a person logged into the course and prevented the pe…

This source appears to accidentally leak what "The Macro" really is. If you notice, in the email that was sent, it's once referred to as "iMacros":

> We have disabled the use of iMacros on the Zenefits network or on Zenefits-issued devices.

A Google for iMacros reveals software that does pretty much precisely what is described:

http://imacros.net/overview

Re: Zenefits Software Helped Brokers Cheat On Licensing Process

#86

Post by chx »

nostrademons wrote: post #59
slavik81 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started my career working on software where serious bugs could get people killed. You do need experienced mentors, but they certainly could be under thirty. You don't have to be old to build things safely. You just have to care.

...and have time, and funding, and patience. 2 out of those 3 are in short supply in Silicon Valley. Robust software is eminently possible, but it requires a development culture that is often incompatible with shipping lots of things quickly and seeing what sticks. I recall that when Parker Conrad spoke at the Stanford startup class, he said that he'd been turned down by many VCs, at least one of which said "Well, if…

As an aside this is something people absolutely do not get. MongoDB haters were always quick to point out how the database can lose data; even after the journal was introduced and that became much harder. But MongoDB failed to explain this same thing well: if you are storing payroll information you need a very robust data storage solution. There's a cost to robustness, however, which you probably don't need to pay when storing 140 character messages. Write concern is a very fundamental business decision.

In other words, when I picked MongoDB to store NowPublic SCAN data, before the word NoSQL was in vogue, even, then it was scanning various streams (including the Twitter gardenhose so many years ago) for bits of news and the ability to store lots and lots of small bits of text quick as hell was much more important than keeping all of them. Noone really cared about every single one, we were in the business of surfacing breaking news and we were a very small startup so not needing lots of expensive servers were a huge plus.

Obviously I picked a very different data storage model when I needed to store payment data at a TV station's video store...

Re: Zenefits Software Helped Brokers Cheat On Licensing Process

#89

Post by ncd »

free2rhyme214 wrote: post #84
tyre wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad you liked it! I'm now building software for local government and we've naturally taken that ethos to our new company. If you are ever looking for another opportunity, check us out http://seneca.systems

CRM for government reminds me of the Ted Talk where a guy said the government should use source control. We're not there yet but it's a step in the right direction. You guys should seriously consider using resellers and distributors btw. Gov't purchasing agents always request three competitive bids.

That's true if you try to sell into the municipalities via the RFP process. However, we sell directly to the departments who will be using our software. We've met with great success doing it this way.

In fact, we managed to close a department in Miami in only six days--that's basically unheard of in local government software sales.

Re: Zenefits Software Helped Brokers Cheat On Licensing Process

#90

Post by leroy_masochist »

I wonder if this incident and others such as the recent Homejoy / Flymaids kerfuffle have caused PG to rethink whether he's still looking for "naughtiness" in founders [0].

That's not meant passive-aggressively. I completely get why naughtiness might be indicative of a propensity toward innovation -- it's a pretty straightforward and intuitive concept. I'm just wondering whether PG still puts as much faith in the heuristic as he used to.

[0]: http://www.paulgraham.com/founders.html

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