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Overworked? Good habits, not holidays, are the answer

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Re: Overworked? Good habits, not holidays, are the answer

#21

Post by arca_vorago »

sremani wrote: post #4

Some are missing the point, most of the work we as software developers does not need long hours but deep focus. The best of the best are able to have 4 hours worth of deep focus, and we are lucky to get an hour or two of it. That would be huge. So the good habits that help us with focus and emphasizes on recovery like walking in the woods (our natural habitat), meditation etc. Its not the time, the hardware of brain…

On the same point, this is one of my primary frustrations as a sysadmin, because sometimes I need to be available lickety-split, but sometimes I need to be in deep focus mode, but my office environment isn't very conducive to deep focus mode... so sometimes I have to disappear myself to a hidden place just to get some thinking in.

Or, what happens more often, is that my productivity suffers and I end up staying late till everyone has gone away so I can actually not be interrupted.

Also, I really don't like shared open office spaces, and as a vet with ptsd, I really don't like having my back turned to the door, but management wants to be able to see everyones screen as they walk by.

While we are talking about overworked, the other issue that bugs me is disparity in expected work vs pay. To me, employment is a contract of goods and services. You pay me money to get a job done at a certain level. If you want me to be superman, you better pay me more like it! Instead, I continually hear the guys who have worked at a place more than 15 years say "You have to put in the work and effort and then hope they give you that raise, perk, etc...".

I don't think the baby-boomer generation realizes that there is no such thing as company loyalty in the big scheme of things anymore, especially in an at-will state. I'm tired of employees bending over backwards because they bring no power to the negotiating table on just about anything. I have a personal life and identity that is completely separate from work and I intend to keep it that way. If you pay me enough I would reconsider my work life balance, but I'm not going to do it for free and hope for it, it needs to be a deal struck in agreement between both parties and in contract form.

If there is one thing I could encourage we teach IT workers, it's the power of learning how contract law works, and all the stuff that comes with that. (eg: no you don't have to sign that, yes you can amend it, no that TOS is bad and unenforceable, that falls under the UCC, etc)

Re: Overworked? Good habits, not holidays, are the answer

#22

Post by stuff4ben »

FreedomToCreate wrote: post #12

These points are spot on, but I also believe these are common sense things everyone knows. The issue is that its extremely difficult to detach from the digital world and many jobs require you be available at any time. A a previous job (they named themselves after a fruit) I couldn't even think about turning my phone off. I was pretty much on call 24/7. Companies are global, and there are always problems to deal with…

Yep, my company has the same tendencies. Some folks I work with have their phones configured for company email which I refuse to do. When I'm home, I'm home and it's the only time I have with my family. When they're all asleep and the wife is watching her netflix, I'll usually jump on the VPN but turn off email and IM so I can get real work done. Most of my days are sadly filled with meetings and email, the 30-60 minutes of extra work I occasionally do at home does wonders for my productivity.

Re: Overworked? Good habits, not holidays, are the answer

#23

Post by refurb »

simplemath wrote: post #8

Overworked? Everyone is overworked. We live in a post scarcity industrial world, or very very close to it, and bad actors have gobbled up the spoils of the huge gains in productivity in the last 50 years. How much of the entire economy is predicated on grey money? How much of your time is indirectly consumed by this leviathan? The more I think about it, the more i want to opt out of the entire fucking thing.

How much of your time is indirectly consumed by this leviathan?

If you're talking about taxes, I'm right there with you!

Re: Overworked? Good habits, not holidays, are the answer

#25

Post by bgilroy26 »

cballard wrote: post #19
Apocryphon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've long been a proponent for hackers to "disrupt" labor by reinventing unions. (And call them guilds, because hey it's a name that works on multiple levels). On the subject of dues being required to pay for full-time guild leaders as brought up in the sibling comments, that makes sense. But could it be supplemented by crowdfunding and alternate pay models, instead of mandating a set price? Tiered membership? Freemi…

Maybe unions (which are large monolithic organizations covering many employers) are not what I'm looking for. It just seems that more startup engineering teams should engage in collective action, because in many cases, if the entire team left, the company would be crippled.

The continued success of professional sports players unions supports this idea.

Re: Overworked? Good habits, not holidays, are the answer

#26

Post by jgh »

refurb wrote: post #23
simplemath wrote: post #8

Overworked? Everyone is overworked. We live in a post scarcity industrial world, or very very close to it, and bad actors have gobbled up the spoils of the huge gains in productivity in the last 50 years. How much of the entire economy is predicated on grey money? How much of your time is indirectly consumed by this leviathan? The more I think about it, the more i want to opt out of the entire fucking thing.

How much of your time is indirectly consumed by this leviathan? If you're talking about taxes, I'm right there with you!

No I believe he meant the fact that wage gains have not kept up with productivity gains

Re: Overworked? Good habits, not holidays, are the answer

#27

Post by fennecfoxen »

cballard wrote: post #2

> So if we need to work long hours, what can we do to recover? Not work long hours? This is what unions are for (now, if we could just have one without dues/political contributions).

If you'd like to bring pro-union propaganda to the table, I'll have to bring in some Scholarship and point out that the story was complex and as such more unions may not necessarily be a panacea: While unions did play a role in shortening the American work week to 40 hours, broader forces in the labor market played substantial roles as well, like a rapidly expanding economy, reduced immigration, and electrification. I will refer you to The Shortening of the American Work Week: An Economic and Historical Analysis of Its Context, Causes, and Consequences (Whaples, 1991). http://www.jstor.org/stable/2122588

"The eight-hour day was won during this decade primarily through labor market tightness (wage increases, manufacturing employment expansion, and curtailment of immigration)."

Re: Overworked? Good habits, not holidays, are the answer

#28

Post by karambahh »

cballard wrote: post #20
toomuchtodo wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dues are fine, someone needs to pay for the people who manage the union (Bernie Sanders contributions could be considered dues for those who believe in his causes, me included). I agree that political contributions should be prohibited though (as well as corporate political contributions).

Why does the union need management? Can't we do it in a chat room/mailing list - for which there are numerous free options?

Because when you have dozens or hundreds of union members, you need stuff to be organized, as in every organisation?

Unions are very differently organized depending on the country, their political leaning (or lack of thereof), their industry... For instance, it looks like that in the US, the Organizing Model[1] is prevalent, which means that a large workforce has to be employed by the union

From the media, it seems to me that unions in the US are generally less politically organized than in Europe. For instance in France, unions are almost always politicaly leaning in one way or another, from CNT ("anarchist" union), CGT (historically linked to the french Communist Party) and CFTC or FO (historically split from CGT by anti-communist organisations) and going sometimes to the right end of the political spectrum such as Alliance/CFE-CGC (french readers please forgive my broad simplification, I do know that it's much more complicated than my summary...). My limited knowledge of trade unions in Belgium and Spain comes to a similar analysis

However, from how they are portrayed in the media, it seems to me that unions in the US are rather 'trade based', for instance "the" teachers union, or the truckers unions, etc. In contrast in France a teacher could be affiliated to CGT Education or FO Education (depending on their personnal preferences/political leaning), which are in turn members of a larger "confederation" such as the CGT. In my (very simplified) example, the "teachers CGT" and the "truckers CGT" can and do band together and strike/picket together when an issue impact both teachers and truckers. In my simplified example, CGT Truckers also strike in support to teachers during large movements.

Is this also a thing in the US? It seems to me that it's not the case?

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizing_model

Re: Overworked? Good habits, not holidays, are the answer

#29

Post by 6t6t6 »

simplemath wrote: post #8

Overworked? Everyone is overworked. We live in a post scarcity industrial world, or very very close to it, and bad actors have gobbled up the spoils of the huge gains in productivity in the last 50 years. How much of the entire economy is predicated on grey money? How much of your time is indirectly consumed by this leviathan? The more I think about it, the more i want to opt out of the entire fucking thing.

So, you took the red pill?

Re: Overworked? Good habits, not holidays, are the answer

#30

Post by Apocryphon »

cballard wrote: post #19
Apocryphon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've long been a proponent for hackers to "disrupt" labor by reinventing unions. (And call them guilds, because hey it's a name that works on multiple levels). On the subject of dues being required to pay for full-time guild leaders as brought up in the sibling comments, that makes sense. But could it be supplemented by crowdfunding and alternate pay models, instead of mandating a set price? Tiered membership? Freemi…

Maybe unions (which are large monolithic organizations covering many employers) are not what I'm looking for. It just seems that more startup engineering teams should engage in collective action, because in many cases, if the entire team left, the company would be crippled.

Well, just as methodologies such as Agile or programming standards are not controlled, per se, by a central body, but adhered to more or less by individual organizations, what if there was an agreed upon standard for collective bargaining for coders?

Like say in a company, you work with your direct coworkers (as opposed to members of a national or even regional union) to adhere to that protocol of bargaining when disputes with management happen?

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