Does anyone else get a bit depressed when you consider how insignificant we are?
Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right
101–110 of 502 posts
Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right
#102Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right
#103From the abstract of the paper, energy equivalent to three solar masses were radiated away in gravitational waves. That's a simply incredible amount! Possibly stupid question: Given how far away it was, and that the inverse square law applies, would the effect of these waves be visible on the human scale if we were closer? We can see the effects of the compression of spacetime with LIGO after all, so presumably we co…
This thing was a billion light years away. Say it were closer; let's put it at a single light year away. LIGO measures wave amplitude, as far as I can tell, which goes down linearly with distance (unlike wave energy, which goes down quadratically, since it's proportional to square of the amplitude). So we could expect to see an effect about a billion times bigger. The detected effect was a change in metric of one par…
So, inverse square that explosion... 1 light year is about 10^16m, so we square that and get 10^32m, so we're now talking about ... 10^15 J.
So, unless my maths is all off (which is possible), if this happened about a light year away, whoever's on the side facing towards the blast wouldn't get to observe very much because they'd feel as if a 1kt nuke just went off above their head. Not a great way to start the day.
Chances are it would wipe out life on Earth too, through the ensuing side-effects like lighting the atmosphere on fire, sterilising half the planet, significantly heating up the oceans, possibly even stripping part of the atmosphere away, etc.
For a great novel based around a strikingly similar premise to what was just observed (and the main reason I even bothered to calculate this), Diaspora by Greg Egan is a fantastic book.
Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
This event was the equivalent of three of our suns turned into pure energy. Pretty expensive to send a message.
Burning a few suns per message would significantly reduce spam.
( ) technical ( ) legislative ( ) market-based ( ) vigilante (X) Physics-based
approach to fighting spam. Your idea will not work. Here is why it won't work. (One or more of the following may apply to your particular idea, and it may have other flaws which used to vary from state to state before a bad federal law was passed.)
(X) The amount of energy involved would likely destroy the planet.
(X) Many email users cannot afford to lose business or alienate potential employers
Specifically, your plan fails to account for
(X) The relative sparseness of non-dark energy in our vicinity
(X) Huge existing software investment in SMTP
and the following philosophical objections may also apply:
(X) Incompatiblity with open source or open source licenses
(X) I don't want the government reading my email
Furthermore, this is what I think about you:
(X) Sorry dude, but I don't think it would work.
(I'm sorry, but I couldn't resist)
Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right
#105> And then the ringing stopped as the two holes coalesced into a single black hole, a trapdoor in space with the equivalent mass of 62 suns. All in a fifth of a second, Earth time. Am I reading this correctly, that shortly after the detector came online we just happened to observe the exact moment a billion years ago that two black holes collided? Was that extremely coincidental? Or do these events happen all the tim…
Counterintuitive, but yes. Because it happened billions of years ago, it happened a long long way away. The sphere of objects billions of years away/ago is far larger than those closer to us. So such a detector should be detecting exponentially more very old objects than new ones. Given the rarity, I would expect nearly all detected events to have happened long long ago in galaxies far far away.
Also, models point to such events being more common in the distant past where there were more black holes (primordials) floating around than there are now.
Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right
#106From the abstract of the paper, energy equivalent to three solar masses were radiated away in gravitational waves. That's a simply incredible amount! Possibly stupid question: Given how far away it was, and that the inverse square law applies, would the effect of these waves be visible on the human scale if we were closer? We can see the effects of the compression of spacetime with LIGO after all, so presumably we co…
Yeah,I got to the point mentioning the masses of the black holes before and after collision and said, "What, they didn't just lose three solar masses..." But, they did. Which was the order of predictions I'd read, years back, but egads . Considering how much larger that is than a supernova, I'd be concerned to have such an event happen in this galaxy...
Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right
#107Does anyone else get a bit depressed when you consider how insignificant we are?
Wherever we went on earth we've colonized quickly. If we can do that to space, universe might be our backyard.
Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right
#108Was he indeed always right on his theories for phenomenons before they could be proved by experiments; or is that the case that we only hear about when he is proved right?
Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right
#1091. Theory predicts gravitational waves when massive objects collide and that the gravitational waves would have an effect that could be measured by the experimental instruments.
2. The experimental instruments measure something.
3. This is considered proof that massive objects collided.
4. Therefore gravitational waves exist.
To reframe my skepticism, the experiment measures something. The conclusion as to what it measures, however, is unsupported by statistical inference or direct experience of a causal phenomenon. That's not to say that what the phenomena measured -- the earth resonating -- is uninteresting or unimportant or even inconsistent with the theory of gravitational waves.
Yet, I don't find the possibility of a geophysical cause -- i.e. that the earth maintains consistent dimensions at a sub-atomic scale -- the many orders of magnitude less likely than gravitational waves necessary to reach a conclusion. In particular, I find natural fluctuation to be more likely because the experiment acknowledges its existence.
For a point of comparison, consider the Perihelion precession of Mercury that provides evidence in support of general relativity. The theory was used to predict the results of an observable event. The experimenters trained their telescopes at a particular location and particular time and observed phenomena consistent with a prediction based on the theory. The same is true of the Higgs. In both cases the experiment is of the form "when X, I will observe Y."
The reasoning here is:
If X, then Y.
Y, therefore X.
It treats an ordinary implication as mutual implication.Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right
#110Note this is a stellar black hole merger of several tens of solar masses. Imagine the disturbance of a galactic core black hole mergers of millions of stellar masses. These are probably much rarer, but do occur when galaxies merge.
If this happened in the centre of the Milky Way, we're about 25k light years away.
Let's say 2 1 million solar masses black holes merged there... and they also gave off about 3/60 of their mass as radiation, that's about 100'000 solar masses being radiated 25k light years away.
Using my calculation in the other post, we're talking 10^52 Joules. Across a distance of 25'000 light years, or about 10^20 metres, that's then decreased by 10^40 (inverse square) so we're left with about 10^12 Joules...
Which is good news! If that happened in the Milky Way, we would probably survive it - though we'd definitely notice some strange atmospheric effects...