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Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right

nytimes.com

71–80 of 502 posts

Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right

#71
The mechanical and software engineering underlying these research endeavors is breathtaking. The laser apparatus, LISA pathfinder, ELISA - how on earth do they calibrate/debug/test such complex systems?

... and I shudder to think that more often than not, anything I code in C/C++ will segfault on first run.

Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This event was the equivalent of three of our suns turned into pure energy. Pretty expensive to send a message.

> This event was the equivalent of three of our suns turned into pure energy. "The collision unleashed the energy of a billion trillion Suns in a fraction of a second."

That's the energy emitted by a billion trillion Suns. The total energy being equivalent to three Suns turned into pure energy.

Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right

#73

The mechanical and software engineering underlying these research endeavors is breathtaking. The laser apparatus, LISA pathfinder, ELISA - how on earth do they calibrate/debug/test such complex systems? ... and I shudder to think that more often than not, anything I code in C/C++ will segfault on first run.

As someone who has spent the day trying to get a web app to run, wrestling with Perl dependencies, I feel the same.

Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right

#74
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The predictions for the LIGO detection rate are very poor. They're based on a sample of just a handful of binary pulsars observed in our Galaxy, which would produce NS-NS mergers. The BH-BH merger rate is almost totally unconstrained, although it is generally thought to be less than the NS-NS merger rate. So the fact that a BH-BH merger was the first detection, and the fact that it was detected so soon after the sens…

If this events are so rare (that we don't even know how rare they are), how is it possible that they achieved the required certainty (5 sigma)? I guess you could count one looong wave as a series of one-time events/measurements, but it could as well be a loooong interference.

From the paper: "To account for the search background noise varying across the target signal space, candidate and background events are divided into three search classes based on template length. The right panel of Fig. 4 shows the background for the search class of GW150914. The GW150914 detection- statistic value of ρˆ_c = 23.6 is larger than any background event, so only an upper bound can be placed on its false alarm rate. Across the three search classes this bound is 1 in 203 000 years. This translates to a false alarm probability https://dcc.ligo.org/LIGO-P150914/public). Take a look at Figure 4 as well.

In case you'd like to dig deeper, the 85 and 86 mentioned are:

[85] K. Cannon et al., Astrophys. J. 748, 136 (2012).

[86] S. Privitera, S. R. P. Mohapatra, P. Ajith, K. Cannon, N. Fotopoulos, M. A. Frei, C. Hanna, A. J. Weinstein, and J. T. Whelan, Phys. Rev. D 89, 024003 (2014),

Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right

#75
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The predictions for the LIGO detection rate are very poor. They're based on a sample of just a handful of binary pulsars observed in our Galaxy, which would produce NS-NS mergers. The BH-BH merger rate is almost totally unconstrained, although it is generally thought to be less than the NS-NS merger rate. So the fact that a BH-BH merger was the first detection, and the fact that it was detected so soon after the sens…

If this events are so rare (that we don't even know how rare they are), how is it possible that they achieved the required certainty (5 sigma)? I guess you could count one looong wave as a series of one-time events/measurements, but it could as well be a loooong interference.

This is about detection.

To put it another way, you need a single black swan to prove that black swans exists (to whatever sigma).

Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right

#76

From the abstract of the paper, energy equivalent to three solar masses were radiated away in gravitational waves. That's a simply incredible amount! Possibly stupid question: Given how far away it was, and that the inverse square law applies, would the effect of these waves be visible on the human scale if we were closer? We can see the effects of the compression of spacetime with LIGO after all, so presumably we co…

Yeah,I got to the point mentioning the masses of the black holes before and after collision and said, "What, they didn't just lose three solar masses..." But, they did.

Which was the order of predictions I'd read, years back, but egads. Considering how much larger that is than a supernova, I'd be concerned to have such an event happen in this galaxy...

Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right

#77

I remember learning about the LIGO experiment back when it was being built, a decade ago, and at the time it seemed so amazing: a giant tube of vacuum, sealed underground and so sensitive that it could detect animals walking nearby, listening to the moving and twisting of space itself… I guess we're finally seeing that with immense human ingenuity and the most careful of engineering, the universe will offer its secre…

An underground device sensitive enough to detect animals walking around could be useful for other things... (from ecology research to large-scale surveillance)

Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right

#78
As with most physics experiments for the last 40 years, nothing new was discovered that we didn’t already predict. Confirming something widely believed to be true isn't nearly as valuable as finding out we don't understand something. This is actually one of the reasons I dropped out of my physics phd program.

Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right

#79

From the abstract of the paper, energy equivalent to three solar masses were radiated away in gravitational waves. That's a simply incredible amount! Possibly stupid question: Given how far away it was, and that the inverse square law applies, would the effect of these waves be visible on the human scale if we were closer? We can see the effects of the compression of spacetime with LIGO after all, so presumably we co…

This thing was a billion light years away. Say it were closer; let's put it at a single light year away.

LIGO measures wave amplitude, as far as I can tell, which goes down linearly with distance (unlike wave energy, which goes down quadratically, since it's proportional to square of the amplitude). So we could expect to see an effect about a billion times bigger.

The detected effect was a change in metric of one part in 6e20 if I'm not mistaken: (4e-3 * (diameter of proton))/4km based on the article's claim of "four one-thousandths of the diameter of a proton". So at one light year distance we could expect an effect of one part in 6e11.

Not really visible on the human scale, seems to me. You could detect it easily with something like the Mössbauer effect, I expect. Your typical lab bench laser interferometer has errors on the order of 1 in 1e6 as far as I can tell, so probably wouldn't be able to pick this up.

Disclaimer: I could be totally off on what a lab bench laser interferometer can do. I'm pretty confident in the rest of the numbers above.

Re: Physicists Detect Gravitational Waves, Proving Einstein Right

#80
post #44

Does anyone else get a bit depressed when you consider how insignificant we are?

What makes you think we're insignificant?

Maybe it's the psychology of how we (fail to) deal with different scales. Discovering new, larger, more wonderful places in the Universe doesn't make the Earth any smaller or less wonderful than it is. Our brains might "zoom out" our mental map to fit these new places in, which makes us appear smaller, but in fact it's our horizons that have grown.

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_published_per_country_pe... there were nearly 200,000 books published in the UK in 2011. That doesn't make the works of Shakespeare insignificant.

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