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The Brain Is Hardwired to Snap

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Re: The Brain Is Hardwired to Snap

#91

Post by bonoboTP »

zo1 wrote: post #84
bonoboTP wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is especially so in US culture. The "eveyone's responsible for their own fate" meme is still very strong there.

I disagree. The opposite is ridiculously pushed from what I can tell of the online-manifestation of western culture. Rather, what I'd argue is the elephant in the room, is that it doesn't matter which of the two is the right answer. We should take responsibility for doing the right thing, regardless if our nature or our surroundings made us a certain way. Barring certain extreme cases, of course, such as mental illne…

I wasn't talking about which one is right. It's just an interesting feature of American culture. The positive side is that people are proud of their successes, they are encouraged, every kid is told they can one day become President etc (obviously exaggerated, but the Tall Poppy Syndrome is not characteristic of the US).

The stereotypical US things, like no universal health care, no tuition-free education, lax gun laws, mass incarceration, death penalty etc. are also a manifestation of this attitude.

You must take care of yourself, you must protect yourself, if you make it then great! If you become a criminal, you become subhuman and can be executed and treated brutally by the police. If you become dirt poor, that's your fault, you can become homeless, there's no welfare.

Now again, I'm exaggerating somewhat to emphasize what I mean. And yes I also know the historical origins of this mentality, and as I said, there are also positive consequences, like most major innovations and scientific discoveries coming from the US, the huge dynamic market where anyone can start a new company with manageable levels of bureaucracy (compared to most European countries) etc.

Re: The Brain Is Hardwired to Snap

#92

Post by astazangasta »

Retric wrote: post #68
astazangasta wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on my understanding of genetics this reasoning is very unattractive. 500 generations is the blink of an eye in genetic terms, certainly not enough to establish a pervasive biological truth that splits the whole species across gender lines; maybe you could drive a single variant to global fixation in that time, certainly not a whole host of them. We also know nothing about how strong the selection in question mi…

For clarity, 500 generations is easily enough for some things to shift frequency, but I agree it would be fast for a mutation to go global. However, thrown weapons are on the order of ~20,000+ generations which is plenty of time for mutation and adaptation. As to testing, I suspect we are going to get good at decoding and editing human DNA fairly soon which is going to have a lot to say about these debates. This stuf…

>when and how it showed up (or not) is a separate issue.

I don't think new data will help. We know the changes in the human lineage; even if we knew their functional meaning, we cannot conclude whether they are adaptive or not; fixed alleles reveal little about their fixation time, etc.

Re: The Brain Is Hardwired to Snap

#93

Post by sarciszewski »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #88
sarciszewski wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no scientific study that proves this but you will note through common sense that males and females tend to act within their gender role over 95% of the time. Then I propose such a scientific study be performed. I don't like appeals to "common sense" in political matters (and unfortunately gender and sexuality is very political right now). Because, hey, if you're wrong, wouldn't that be an interesting resul…

>I don't like appeals to "common sense" in political matters All things must often appeal to common sense regardless of the politics behind the issue. Males have penises and females don't, does a scientific study need to be conducted to prove this point? No. Because if we needed a scientific study for every possible issue without regard to common sense we would make zero progress on any topic.

> Males have penises and females don't, does a scientific study need to be conducted to prove this point?

What you've described is what I refer to as "sex" while totally ignoring the topic of gender. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_gender_distinction

I'm not sure what your politics are, but a lot of people who have traveled down this path in a conversation ended up expressing very intolerant opinions towards transgendered people. If you do feel contempt for someone whose gender identity and/or assumed gender role doesn't match their biological sex, please don't share that opinion with me.

Re: The Brain Is Hardwired to Snap

#94

Post by crimsonalucard »

sarciszewski wrote: post #93
crimsonalucard wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't like appeals to "common sense" in political matters All things must often appeal to common sense regardless of the politics behind the issue. Males have penises and females don't, does a scientific study need to be conducted to prove this point? No. Because if we needed a scientific study for every possible issue without regard to common sense we would make zero progress on any topic.

> Males have penises and females don't, does a scientific study need to be conducted to prove this point? What you've described is what I refer to as "sex" while totally ignoring the topic of gender. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_gender_distinction I'm not sure what your politics are, but a lot of people who have traveled down this path in a conversation ended up expressing very intolerant opinions towards tr…

>What you've described is what I refer to as "sex" while totally ignoring the topic of gender. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_gender_distinction

What I was describing was just an example of common sense having application without the need of a scientific study it has NOTHING to do with anything else. I could have easily used another example such as "All dogs have two eyes."

>I'm not sure what your politics are, but a lot of people who have traveled down this path in a conversation ended up expressing very intolerant opinions towards transgendered people. If you do feel contempt for someone whose gender identity and/or assumed gender role doesn't match their biological sex, please don't share that opinion with me.

I don't feel contempt. I believe in equality for all and I believe all humans should afford equal rights.

This is offensive. It's a highly condescending comment implying that you believe I'm some kind of racist prick. Disguising your accusation with a hypothetical "if" doesn't mask the insult. To be accused of being racist is a mark of death in modern society. It can prevent you from getting a job and it can cause other people to hate you. Such an accusation without basis is as vile and disgusting as the people who condemn and feel contempt for transgendered people. In Salem they hung "witches" because of finger pointing. Hence the term "witch hunt." What you are implying is NO different. Please STOP now.

I wonder why you have decided to accuse me of this when I have only presented scientific and logical concepts. What are the foundations of your beliefs? Do politics shape your reality or does science? Am i describing science that goes against a perception of reality that is shaped by politics? I can only guess. At least for me, science shapes my reality and it often depicts a reality that is ugly, cold and not ideal. Politics shapes my behavior, and the way I behave is the only place I can strive for an ideal.

On the topic of transgenders. I feel they should be treated the exact same way everyone else is treated and afforded the exact same rights. However the science and the numbers speak about something that transgendered people often don't like to think about: Being transgender is not a normal condition.

Re: The Brain Is Hardwired to Snap

#95

Post by crimsonalucard »

delecti wrote: post #90
crimsonalucard wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a reality I do not agree with. Strong correlation indicates the high possibility of an intrinsic link, unless evidence states otherwise. Below is a true story of a man raised as a woman, but unable to complete the sexual transition despite cultural upbringing, injections of testosterone and even testicular castration. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

> unless evidence states otherwise There is evidence in the form of the existence of transgender people. Some societies (as noted above) have been aware of the lack of an intrinsic link between apparent reproductive sex at birth and mental/social gender for quite a while, and analogous behavior is observed in some animals. Just as you can't conversion therapy someone out of being transgender, David Reimer is evidence…

>There is evidence in the form of the existence of transgender people.

The link I describe isn't a link that ALWAYS holds. The link, like all links in science, is just a causal correlation.

So in short, being of the male sex doesn't guarantee that you will be of male gender, but it makes it highly highly like you will be of the male gender. That is the intrinsic connection and link I describe.

I think essentially we're in agreement.

Re: The Brain Is Hardwired to Snap

#96

Post by delecti »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #95
delecti wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless evidence states otherwise There is evidence in the form of the existence of transgender people. Some societies (as noted above) have been aware of the lack of an intrinsic link between apparent reproductive sex at birth and mental/social gender for quite a while, and analogous behavior is observed in some animals. Just as you can't conversion therapy someone out of being transgender, David Reimer is evidence…

>There is evidence in the form of the existence of transgender people. The link I describe isn't a link that ALWAYS holds. The link, like all links in science, is just a causal correlation. So in short, being of the male sex doesn't guarantee that you will be of male gender, but it makes it highly highly like you will be of the male gender. That is the intrinsic connection and link I describe. I think essentially we'…

Ah, it would seem so.

Re: The Brain Is Hardwired to Snap

#97

Post by norea-armozel »

jschwartzi wrote: post #39
norea-armozel wrote: post #11

I remember when I was younger I would snap at the silliest moments, mostly when I wasn't getting my way. This went on for about 16 years, so there was a point I was very dangerous to be around if I lost it. What I find interesting looking back is how now I don't really get all that mad and at worse I'll just snarky or rude. I don't know what's changed over time (hormones maybe?) but I do know that unless someone real…

Part of the function of your frontal lobes is to moderate impulses, and they actually continue growing and maturing for several years past age 18. It sounds like you just had a little more growing up to do.

This is somewhat true, but I actually use to be very verbally abusive until three years ago. Then again I was dealing with not even having a therapist to talk about my gender dysphoria (not being out sucks for me). So who knows wth is going on with me.
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