Live data from Hacker News

What 50,000 watts of RF energy sounds like through a jumper cable

facebook.com

91–100 of 163 posts

Re: What 50,000 watts of RF energy sounds like through a jumper cable

#91

Even better: some crazy Russian/Ukrainian kids listening to the local radio station through weeds (and occasionally getting some minor RF burns): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82s5Q3GIO9I

Wait, is that thing just lightly fenced and casually has this much current flowing through it? Isn't that basically a death trap?

Re: What 50,000 watts of RF energy sounds like through a jumper cable

#92
post #60
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean they conduct from the entry-point to ground, similar to a lightning strike or electrical burn? Or is this more like a radiation burn? Actually, now that I think about it, it'd actually be most similar to how a microwave heats meat, wouldn't it? Microwaves being within the RF part of the EM spectrum and all. (Though not quite the same, given the lack of dipole interaction with water molecules outside of the p…

That reminds me of an urban legend regarding microwaves, which doesn't seem entirely infeasible. It involves a man working at a small fast food stand, who worked next to his microwave. Now his microwave was used often, and it had a small hole in the metal screen allowing microwave radiation to leak out. The man slowly starts to feel abdominal pains after a while, goes to his doctor, who diagnoses it as liver problems…

That doesn't sound very feasible. Microwaves work by standing waves, the magnetron doesn't just cook things when outside the oven.

Re: What 50,000 watts of RF energy sounds like through a jumper cable

#94
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bird would be dead. RF power will happily fry tissue if you get close enough to the radiator.

Excuse my ignorance, but wouldn't the bird need to be grounded for the power to jump? Or does that only apply to electrical circuits?

This is in fact a profound question.

The physics of electricity propagation in a powerline circuit is fundamentally the same as the propagation of FM radio waves, or even the beam from a flashlight. All of these examples involve electromagnetic energy propagating at the speed of light. So why do we need wires for powerlines, but not for propagating radio signals or light beams?

The principle is that light (in a vacuum at least) travels at a constant but non-infinite velocity, c. Hence, the electrical wiggle received at an observer's location now i.e; (x,t), has been caused by some earlier wiggle conducted by the source (x',t') such that the t-t'=(x-x')/c. We should expect that the effect of this 'time delay' is more profound if the source is wiggling faster in time.

A more specific way to state this is that the electromagnetic power radiated into free space by a dipole increases as the square of the dipole moment and the fourth power of the frequency. Now compare a powerline (60 cycles/sec), with FM radio (100 Million cycles/sec), and with the light from a flashlight (500 Trillion cycles/sec). That's why even atomic dipoles can produce intense visible light, while it would take a very very large dipole to radiate a similar intensity at 60 cycles.

Feynman Lectures Vol.II is absolutely the best reference to learn this stuff.

That is not to say that a bird needs to make contact with two wires on a utility line, in order to suffer harm. If the line voltage is high enough (e.g; 110,000 Volts, as in high-tension power transmission), an electrical corona would form around the line from electrostatic effects. The corona is actually ionized air indicating the high electrostatic field strengths in the region, it can emit a bluish glow and growl at 60 cycles. Birds can no doubt sense this corona & stay away.

Re: What 50,000 watts of RF energy sounds like through a jumper cable

#96

Amplitude Modulation, or AM, works by modulating the sound on the "peaks and valleys" of the frequency. If you were to look at the waveform of the carrier frequency, you would see it as variance in the "power levels" of the signal, going higher and lower depending on what's being sent. Because of how AM works, you can actually hear what's being transmitted by causing an electrical arc. It's the same concept of hearin…

So could you tune into the singing tesla coils with an AM radio is that the same idea?

You probably could, though I suspect you might need to re-tune between notes.

If you have an old CRT, you might be able to achieve a similar effect with Tempest for Eliza[1].

[1] http://www.erikyyy.de/tempest/

Re: What 50,000 watts of RF energy sounds like through a jumper cable

#97
post #45
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes it worse than just a burn or a burn due to an electrical shock?

Disclaimer: I am not a doctor or burn expert of any sort. I am an extra class ham. An RF burn will penetrate more deeply than a "conventional" burn of similar degree, possibly burning nerve cells, circulatory and other structures that an external burn would not. RF burns typically heal very slowly. I can't compare RF burns to burns caused by electrical current, except to say that electrical current will follow some p…

Also, RF energy is more damaging to tissues that lack blood flow to control heat. Like eyeballs, and testicles.

Re: What 50,000 watts of RF energy sounds like through a jumper cable

#98
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reminds me of an urban legend regarding microwaves, which doesn't seem entirely infeasible. It involves a man working at a small fast food stand, who worked next to his microwave. Now his microwave was used often, and it had a small hole in the metal screen allowing microwave radiation to leak out. The man slowly starts to feel abdominal pains after a while, goes to his doctor, who diagnoses it as liver problems…

That doesn't sound very feasible. Microwaves work by standing waves, the magnetron doesn't just cook things when outside the oven.

I thought they worked by dielectric heating? Making polar molecules get all frantic and stuff. There is a safety mechanism to shut off the magnetron when the door is opened, and a screen to make the viewing window opaque to microwave radiation, but those can malfunction.

[0][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave#Effects_on_health] [1][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_burn]

Re: What 50,000 watts of RF energy sounds like through a jumper cable

#99

So dumb questions: Why were they shorting out the tower? (What was the purpose of the cable) What are those rubber things? What would happen to a bird that landed on the tower (not grounded) What about a large metal helicopter (if it didn't crash)?

I am also curious about the cable. At the start of the video, its upper end is clamped on to a part of the antenna. The guy appears to be about take the lower end off what I am guessing is a grounded part, then he decides to give the demonstration. So, in the beginning, is this a live antenna that was shorted to ground while still being powered? (perhaps because it was being worked on?) If so, it seems a rough way to handle the transmitter, though I suppose it must be robust enough to handle lightning strikes (you can see two rods with balls on the end that I guess make a spark gap.)

Alternatively, could this be an unpowered antenna that is picking up signal from a nearby powered one?

Post reply on HN