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Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

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Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#391

Post by dang »

crdoconnor wrote: post #13

>Her voice cracks and her eyes well up. She is in the process of relinquishing her American nationality. Soon she'll visit the US embassy formally to renounce her citizenship, she says, under duress. >"I'm very proud of being an American. It's what I am when I look in the mirror. >"If it weren't for Fatca [the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act] and the decision by the bank, I'd never be doing this. Never ever. It's…

Please don't post comments like this. HN is for thoughtful discussion, not ideological venting.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#392

Post by briandear »

dalke wrote: post #191
m_mueller wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blows my mind that you people can't even vote when living abroad. As a Swiss, the embassy registers me in either my home canton or my last residential canton for votes (i.e. all the people referendums) and elections. They send me the voting letters to my Japanese home address. Free of charge. Things like this and the Flint water scandal make me want to never work in the US, even if it's just a year. Dealing with your…

I'm a US citizen living in Sweden. I still vote in the US, as if I were a resident from where I used to be. In fact, I have a ballot for two municipal offices on my desk right now. (This is the second ballot I've gotten this year. The first was for a school bond. The US has a lot of elections.) In reference to briandear's comment "It is illegal to register to vote in a state in which you aren't resident", that simply…

However that doesn't account for State laws which, many are explicit -- the country in which you reside. I know that isn't how it works in practice, but technically, if you aren't a resident, you aren't a resident -- regardless of your parents.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#393

Post by briandear »

cylinder wrote: post #263
briandear wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Army coming to rescue? Nope. Here's a story about the US specifically NOT going to rescue Americans in Yemen: http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-04-22/americans-t... Have a look at this evacuation application: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/211837.pdf Here's the key wording: "3. I understand that: (a) I will be billed for the cost of my/our transportation no greater than the amount of a full-fare…

Thanks. I can't believe people on HN are defending FBAR. Go and take a look at the online form. It is disgusting how intrusive it is. I thought HN is supposed to be opposed to government intrusion into privacy.

..except when it supports people 'paying their fair share.' Many people on HN have never met a tax they didn't like.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#394

Post by briandear »

___ab___ wrote: post #314
m_mueller wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blows my mind that you people can't even vote when living abroad. As a Swiss, the embassy registers me in either my home canton or my last residential canton for votes (i.e. all the people referendums) and elections. They send me the voting letters to my Japanese home address. Free of charge. Things like this and the Flint water scandal make me want to never work in the US, even if it's just a year. Dealing with your…

This is absolutely false. All US citizens (who are otherwise eligible) living abroad can vote.

They can vote, but registering where you don't actually reside is a violation of many state laws.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#395

Post by briandear »

newman314 wrote: post #338
briandear wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Army coming to rescue? Nope. Here's a story about the US specifically NOT going to rescue Americans in Yemen: http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-04-22/americans-t... Have a look at this evacuation application: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/211837.pdf Here's the key wording: "3. I understand that: (a) I will be billed for the cost of my/our transportation no greater than the amount of a full-fare…

While I generally have been supportive of Bernie's stance on things, it's disturbing to hear that he supports FATCA. I went digging for more information and it seems that he now is potentially supportive of residence based taxation instead of citizen based taxation. From reddit.com/r/expats4sanders, http://www.democratsabroad.org/our_candidates There are many different scenarios which the law as it currently stands d…

Bernie voted for FATCA in 2010, thus an opposition to CBT is in opposition with his record.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#396

Post by dalke »

briandear wrote: post #392
dalke wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a US citizen living in Sweden. I still vote in the US, as if I were a resident from where I used to be. In fact, I have a ballot for two municipal offices on my desk right now. (This is the second ballot I've gotten this year. The first was for a school bond. The US has a lot of elections.) In reference to briandear's comment "It is illegal to register to vote in a state in which you aren't resident", that simply…

However that doesn't account for State laws which, many are explicit -- the country in which you reside. I know that isn't how it works in practice, but technically, if you aren't a resident, you aren't a resident -- regardless of your parents.

Correct. But you don't need to be a physical resident to vote in a state. (Nor can you pick a state at random.) Here's what the government says, from https://www.fvap.gov/citizen-voter/additional-info :

> Citizens residing outside the U.S. may not arbitrarily choose which State to declare as their legal voting residence without meeting the State's residency requirement. The following are basic guidelines to follow in determining voting residency:

> * Your "legal State of residence" for voting purposes is the address where you last resided immediately prior to your departure from the U.S. This residence remains valid even though the citizen may no longer own property or have other ties to their last State residence and their intent to return to that State may be uncertain.

> * Voting in an election for Federal offices only may not be used as the sole basis to determine residency for the purposes of imposing State and local taxes. If you claim a particular State as your residence and have other ties with that State in addition to voting, then you may be liable for State and local taxation, depending upon that particular State law. Consult your legal counsel for specific questions or situations.

The qualifier "for voting purposes" is why there's no fraud.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#397

Post by dalke »

briandear wrote: post #394
___ab___ wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely false. All US citizens (who are otherwise eligible) living abroad can vote.

They can vote, but registering where you don't actually reside is a violation of many state laws.

Kindly point to the relevant state law which requires you to be a physical resident of the state, and thereby disallows deployed members of the military and overseas voters from voting in the state. There may be some, but I've not heard of one.

In any case, your complaint was about the lack of representation in Congress for overseas citizens, excepting by those who fraudulently declare residency in the state. The Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act says the state must allow overseas voters to vote in federal elections, and therefore do have representation, and without resorting to fraudulent means.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#398

Post by dalke »

geomark wrote: post #383
dalke wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you live overseas then you probably want to do thing like save up for retirement, or a house. While you can have a US bank account, it means taking a loss to change the money first to then from dollars. You also have to be very careful with your direct deposit. If it goes into your local account (because it's expensive and more complicated to wire the money to a US account) and make $5K/month then you have to be a…

I will also add that many (most?) US banks will not provide banking services for you if they know you live overseas. You have to maintain a US address. Even then, if they discover that despite having a US mailing address you actually reside overseas they will close your account. It's happening more frequently these days.

Wow, you're right! I looked into that just now. I figured USAA, which provides banking service to military and ex-military, and therefore likely has many members who live overseas, would be more likely to provide banking services to overseas Americans.

https://communities.usaa.com/t5/Other/INVESTMENT-ACCOUNTS-WI... suggests that even banking with them may be problematical, at least if you have no US address.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#399

Post by tbirdx »

randyrand wrote: post #327
ryaniscool wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lived in Australia for 5 years. Was several months late filing FBAR my first year. Did it on time my second year. Completely forgot my 3rd and 4th year. Filed 3 at the same time on my 5th year. I was never contacted by the IRS for failing to file on time. The point being, it's scare tactics. I filed a complaint with the https://www.irs.gov/Advocate and they are well aware of the issue. They have brought it up repeate…

Hi! I work for the IRS and we'd love to get this squared away. Please contact me at collection0010@irs.gov and we can resolve this immediately. Best

Hi, I'm a Canadian business owner who does lots of US contract work and I have colleagues who are US persons in both countries.

Every time a US Customs agent asks me if I will ever be interested in becoming a citizen I laugh and tell them about situations like this.

When I was young I dreamed of moving to the US, now it is a huge joke because of all the paperwork and FACTA's "Hotel California" implications. Now I will never apply to be a US citizen. Especially because I would have addditional paperwork until I die.

BTW, this even affects Canadians and Canadian legal entities as we're all forced to declare we are not US Persons even if it is obvious we are not.

FACTA is an overreach of power and the IRS should do a better job pushing back against laws like this. The US was once known as "the place to do business" (at least in the Americas) but now it appears to be just a gigantic bureaucracy.

I think it is good people are renouncing their citizenship... Perhaps it is the only way to let the government know how bad the system is.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#400

Post by tbirdx »

timthelion wrote: post #72
bespoke_engnr wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an American living in Europe. I report my income to the IRS every year, like you. Reading your comment gave me a scare -- what exactly would trigger the $20,000-80,000 fine or asset seizure? Is it a failure to report income taxes at all? Or do you make so much more than $100k/year that the double taxation is killing you? I'm just trying to figure out what, other than their already-reported income being audited, h…

When many expats came abroad, the rules were rather lax. They didn't have to file US taxes due to their low incomes. Later the rules changed, and they had to file taxes. Those who didn't know about the change ended up having to pay a big fine. Lately, a new requirement was the need to file FBAR forms for every foreign bank accound and security: https://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Emplo... Many peop…

It is even worse for US Persons in Canada, many of whom have never even been a US resident in their entire life. The reason is our tax treaty... If you file in Canada, you're good. At least that is how it was. Now they are going after these people because capital gains are exempted from this aspect of the treaty so they think they are compliant by having filed in Canada, but then find out a house the sold 10-20 years ago should have been declared even if they have never had to file US taxes before.
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