Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 411 posts

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#251

Post by Chathamization »

mpweiher wrote: post #132
robk wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you come across anyone who has been fined under this law? I have not and know many people who are rubbish at filing on time or even in the same year. I've not seen any enforcement commensurate with $20k fines willy nilly. Not that I like the law, I've just not seen it enforced.

Non-enforcement of draconian laws is the problem. Especially if actually following those laws is difficult to impossible. It means that your fate is not decided by the law, but by arbitrary decisions of random officials. It is the opposite of rule of law.

This is a pretty huge problem in the US, though it doesn't get talked about much. The people who do suffer the penalties often get smeared so that people think this isn't a problem and couldn't happen to them ("It's like having Al Capone go to jail for tax evasion.").

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#252

Post by Spooky23 »

dalke wrote: post #191
m_mueller wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blows my mind that you people can't even vote when living abroad. As a Swiss, the embassy registers me in either my home canton or my last residential canton for votes (i.e. all the people referendums) and elections. They send me the voting letters to my Japanese home address. Free of charge. Things like this and the Flint water scandal make me want to never work in the US, even if it's just a year. Dealing with your…

I'm a US citizen living in Sweden. I still vote in the US, as if I were a resident from where I used to be. In fact, I have a ballot for two municipal offices on my desk right now. (This is the second ballot I've gotten this year. The first was for a school bond. The US has a lot of elections.) In reference to briandear's comment "It is illegal to register to vote in a state in which you aren't resident", that simply…

He's right and wrong. Living in Sweden, you cannot just decide to register to vote in New York City or Minneapolis just because, as you don't meet the criteria to register.

But, once registered, you can vote as an absentee indefinitely from wherever you came from.

I'm not sure how it works in other situations, but I know that a few of my friends who joined the military moved to Texas and New Hampshire, as the military treats you as a resident of the state in which you enter service for tax purposes.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#253

Post by peter303 »

sydneysider wrote: post #238
dalke wrote: post #9

American citizens have to pay $2,350 to renounce citizenship? What kind of paperwork costs that much? (Or, why not just add more paperwork and charge $100K?) http://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/blog/renouncing-us-citiz... > 1. Consular officers must confirm that the potential renunciant fully understands the consequences of renunciation, including losing the right to reside in the United States without documentation…

I'm pretty sure I remember reading an article about what happens when you renounce your US citizenship, something along the lines of you being taxed for any assets you have (in the US) as if you had sold all of it on the day you give up your citizeship, please someone correct me if I am wrong, I will try find a source. "To recap, if upon giving up US citizenship you own assets with unrealized gains of less than $626,…

Co-founder of Facebook had to pay taxes. He rescinded citizenship just before IPO when the assets were worth considerably less and just had to pay lower taxes. He only became a US citizen as a teenager, so wasnt strongly attached to the US. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-05-11/facebook-c...

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#254

Post by gcb0 »

knodi123 wrote: post #243
mike_hearn wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are some benefits to being a US citizen, like that the army will rescue you if there is a civil war This is a common myth. If you don't intend to return to the USA there are no benefits to US citizenship, only downsides. The US may or may not rescue you if there's a civil war (see the fate of people in Yemen), but if they do, they will charge you for it at military rates you almost certainly cannot afford: ht…

> but if they do, they will charge you for it at military rates you almost certainly cannot afford: But the link you posted said "We charge you the equivalent of a full coach commercial fare on a comparable mode of transportation at the time that commercial travel ceases to be a viable option." Where'd you get the "military rates" part?

that's what they say of everything they buy for themselves too, and I've never saw a military contact that wasn't overcharged.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#256

Post by X86BSD »

I've had questions about this for some time.

1) When you drop US citizenship and become "stateless", what happens? Are you deported from the US since you are no longer a citizen? To where?

2) Are you unable to get health insurance? A job, with no SSN?

This has fascinated me for years but I have never seen anyone write about the real world practical impacts of what happens if you become stateless.

Any links to that information?

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#257

Post by Chathamization »

mike_hearn wrote: post #114
timthelion wrote: post #24

I am an American living in Prague and will be among those to give up their citizenship. The new FBAR requirements and the recently pushed through changes that require foreign banks to report are really a huge burden. It is a significant legal risk to be an American overseas. The fines are insane for failiure to report, even if you owe no taxes! You can easilly land yourself with a $20 000 - $80 000 fine for having a…

> There are some benefits to being a US citizen, like that the army will rescue you if there is a civil war This is a common myth. If you don't intend to return to the USA there are no benefits to US citizenship, only downsides. The US may or may not rescue you if there's a civil war (see the fate of people in Yemen), but if they do, they will charge you for it at military rates you almost certainly cannot afford: ht…

So, the US spends hundreds of billions of dollars a year on the military, but can't rely on it to protect its citizens to the degree that the Indian military (with a budget less than 1/10 of the US military's) protects its citizens? Sounds about right.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#258

Post by gcb0 »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #230
dalke wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For FBAR? There's an amnesty program in place which was introduced during the summer of 2014, which is better than then fines possible under the voluntary disclosure program. See http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2014/06/18/irs-announ... . That reduced the outrage some. Before then, http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-taxes-foreign-idUSTRE7... reports that after 26 months of work, and at one time with a likely…

How does the US enforce this? What happens if someone with no plans to visit the US and no income from the US that could be garnished says "So - come and get it if you want it"?

the founder of a big french game studio filled for ipo two years after giving up his green card (not even citizenship).

the irs got the french gov to freeze all his assets claiming he was giving up citizenship to evade taxes.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#259

Post by knowaveragejoe »

lhopki01 wrote: post #163
timthelion wrote: post #24

I am an American living in Prague and will be among those to give up their citizenship. The new FBAR requirements and the recently pushed through changes that require foreign banks to report are really a huge burden. It is a significant legal risk to be an American overseas. The fines are insane for failiure to report, even if you owe no taxes! You can easilly land yourself with a $20 000 - $80 000 fine for having a…

I lived in Nigeria during a period of violence when thousands died. One of my enduring memories was the reactions of the Americans living there at the time. They were so sure that the army would come and save them and when it didn't they were dumbfounded. When someone from the US eventually turned up after the violence had all died down all the US citizens were offered was the opportunity to be part of the convey out…

Uh, did any of those American citizens make their way to the US embassy? That's how you get out of the country if violence is breaking out. Nobody in government would even know you're there beyond some database.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#260

Post by dalke »

Spooky23 wrote: post #252
dalke wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a US citizen living in Sweden. I still vote in the US, as if I were a resident from where I used to be. In fact, I have a ballot for two municipal offices on my desk right now. (This is the second ballot I've gotten this year. The first was for a school bond. The US has a lot of elections.) In reference to briandear's comment "It is illegal to register to vote in a state in which you aren't resident", that simply…

He's right and wrong. Living in Sweden, you cannot just decide to register to vote in New York City or Minneapolis just because, as you don't meet the criteria to register. But, once registered, you can vote as an absentee indefinitely from wherever you came from. I'm not sure how it works in other situations, but I know that a few of my friends who joined the military moved to Texas and New Hampshire, as the militar…

I'll quote briandear more fully: "so while you can just pick a state at random if you want, the fact is that we do not have representation because the representatives from a state represent residents of that state. It is illegal to register to vote in a state in which you aren't resident. To register to vote as an overseas American, you effectively have to commit fraud"

None of that is right. You cannot pick a state at random. The representatives are also there to support the overseas voters and citizens. And you do not need to be a physical resident in the state in order to register to vote overseas in the state. Moveover, registering as an overseas voter is not effectively committing fraud.

So I disagree with you. briandear was wrong on all points relevant to the snippet I quoted. Otherwise, I think your first two lines make the same points I made.

Post reply on HN