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Marc Andreessen Pro-Colonialism Tweet Riles India Tech World

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Re: Marc Andreessen Pro-Colonialism Tweet Riles India Tech World

#141

Extremely stupid tweet by Andreessen. He probably doesn't even realize that, like most ignorant people. FYI it was socialism that held back the Indian economy during the 70s and 80s. And it was colonialism that drained the country's wealth for over two hundred years. Here, Mr. Andreessen, educate yourself: https://www.google.com/search?q=bengal+famine

On the subject on British attitudes towards the third world, an illuminating example is that of Iran. English prospectors found oil in Iran in the early years of the 20th century, a find that in the words on Winston Churchill was "a prize from fairyland beyond our wildest dreams". Britain established what was then the largest refinery in the world in Abadan, Iran, operated with was effectively slave labour, and spent…

Above is (somewhat) right. Meet the original BP [1]

The Shah was not a puppet. Puppets dance to the tune of puppet master & master would not replace said puppet with Ayatollahs.

Mohammad Reza Pahlavi was an Iranian Nationalist and the story of 20th century in Iran is far far more nuanced than the caricature painted by (very interested) partisans such as Kinzer.

Do the research. This [2] is the Iran that the "puppet's" father, Reza Pahlavi ("the Great") inherited. Exceptional moves by the "puppet's" father began with establishment of an independent National Bank (which did not please "master" in City of London). And continued until Iran was actually considered a geopolitical threat to the gang that started the Trilateral Commission [3].

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Persian_Oil_Company

[2]: http://www.chaonix.com/DL/National_Geography_April_1921.pdf

[3]:https://youtu.be/DqrHQpRHwws (Don't be confused. Jimmy here is saying Iran is /too/ stable and my friend Zibig & our friends like to see massive instability in this region until "the great game" is won.}

[minor typo edits; link fix; final edit note corrected NG pdf link.]

Re: Marc Andreessen Pro-Colonialism Tweet Riles India Tech World

#142
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hate this argument, the change in GDP share is because the West industrialised and the East didn't, before that it was mostly a matter of population, per capita GDP didn't matter so much. Not to say I have any idea what would have happened without colonialism, but thinking that India would have retained their share of world GDP is naive.

Is it a coincidence that industrial revolution happened in a country which was taking raw material from its colonies at zero cost? Owning India is what allowed Britain to fund its own development (as well as all its international wars). The british destroyed india's local textile sector (which was world-famous), shipped all the cotton to Britain, and sold clothes BACK to Indians. That's how this industrial revolution…

I would agree it's almost certainly true that colonialism and extracted wealth did a great deal to fuel the industrial revolution, but saying that the British pace of industrialization was dependent on India is a different thing from saying that India would have industrialized at the same pace as the West in the absence of colonialism. Leaders and elites frittering away wealth, rather than investing it in economic development, has been the rule rather than the exception for the majority of human civilization, in the West and the East. What makes you think that the Mughals would have suddenly shifted the basis of their social order, to start investing in steam engines rather than palaces, in the absence of the British? The Newcomen engine was invented in 1712, at a time when the East India Company were an irrelevance. Where is the parallel in India?

Just to be clear, I'm not saying pace of development wasn't seriously set back through colonialism, I'm questioning specifically this percentage of GDP argument.

Re: Marc Andreessen Pro-Colonialism Tweet Riles India Tech World

#143
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should find out what India's share of world GDP and trade was when the british arrived.

I really hate this argument, the change in GDP share is because the West industrialised and the East didn't, before that it was mostly a matter of population, per capita GDP didn't matter so much. Not to say I have any idea what would have happened without colonialism, but thinking that India would have retained their share of world GDP is naive.

I really hate your argument too. India actually had trade routes all the way upto Britain until and after it was colonized. In fact there is no doubt that India would have taken part in Western industrialization looking at the attitude India had in allowing foreigners to settle in its land. Don't forget that the British never waged a War against India unlike other countries which Britain colonized. They came into India as the "British East India Company" to do trade and business. Wouldn't this trade and business easily influence India to industrialize? So what changed? Why did this company, that had been setup to do trade and business, end up getting it's own private armies, exercise military power and assume administrative functions? Was it part of a bigger plan to actually colonize a country without waging War by infiltrating the country in the guise of a Company and ruling via the Divide and Rule policy? Ask yourself these questions and you'll get your answer. India was always open to new cultures, traditions and advancements before British colonization. You should read about Indian history to know that we even had metal working way before Britain even knew about metallurgy. Read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_metallurgy_in_South...

Re: Marc Andreessen Pro-Colonialism Tweet Riles India Tech World

#144

Extremely stupid tweet by Andreessen. He probably doesn't even realize that, like most ignorant people. FYI it was socialism that held back the Indian economy during the 70s and 80s. And it was colonialism that drained the country's wealth for over two hundred years. Here, Mr. Andreessen, educate yourself: https://www.google.com/search?q=bengal+famine

Mughal Empire , sectarianism and caste system crippled India, not Britain.

The revisionism in this thread is incredible. Britain enslaved an entire nation for centuries and you think that didn't cripple India? They will have to pay for their crimes one day.

Re: Marc Andreessen Pro-Colonialism Tweet Riles India Tech World

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well of course it was a PR disaster, they "fixed" it by removing the original blocking functionality altogether! Both "don't show me their stuff" and "don't show them my stuff" are useful, they just shouldn't be bundled.

I don't think "don't show them my stuff" is a legitimate option for a publication and broadcast platform like Twitter. It's so simple to evade the blocks that all it does is promote sockpuppetry, which just complicates attempts to control all that "harassment" (which, more often, is actually just simple disagreement) that Twitter users are concerned about. If you don't want your tweets to be publicly visible, set you…

The point isn't to put some ironclad barrier between you, it's just to make it harder for them. That's enough to get a lot of people to just give up and move on. If people want to do it, why not let them? Social stuff doesn't have to be all or nothing and it doesn't have to be perfect. The lock on my front door won't keep out a determined intruder, but it's still extremely useful.

Re: Marc Andreessen Pro-Colonialism Tweet Riles India Tech World

#147
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it was stupid, however it was also a tongue in cheek tweet that was not an endorsement of colonialism and more poking fun at the sluggish Indian economy once they freed themselves of colonial rule. He was essentially making the point you made.

The 1970's called. They want their stereotype of the Indian economy back: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/12146579/India-...

Everyone knows the Indian economy is growing very fast. Why did you post that?

Re: Marc Andreessen Pro-Colonialism Tweet Riles India Tech World

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should find out what India's share of world GDP and trade was when the british arrived.

That's prior to the industrial revolution compared to after the industrial revolution. It's the same story with India, Russia and China - during that period the global economy shifted from being overwhelmingly defined by agriculture and other products of manual labour (and therefore being heavily dependent on population) to being defined by industrial production. Britain treated India as an extractive economy, were i…

You can't compare Russia to India. India was welcoming to foreigners and integrated their cultures and traditions. It was the same Mughals and other regional rules who allowed the British to setup the "British East India Company" in India. Its unfortunate that the British took advantage of this gesture and misused the opportunity to colonize India. To say that India would not have industrialized without colonization is stretching it too far. India was always open to new endeavors.

Re: Marc Andreessen Pro-Colonialism Tweet Riles India Tech World

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the subject on British attitudes towards the third world, an illuminating example is that of Iran. English prospectors found oil in Iran in the early years of the 20th century, a find that in the words on Winston Churchill was "a prize from fairyland beyond our wildest dreams". Britain established what was then the largest refinery in the world in Abadan, Iran, operated with was effectively slave labour, and spent…

Above is (somewhat) right. Meet the original BP [1] The Shah was not a puppet. Puppets dance to the tune of puppet master & master would not replace said puppet with Ayatollahs. Mohammad Reza Pahlavi was an Iranian Nationalist and the story of 20th century in Iran is far far more nuanced than the caricature painted by (very interested) partisans such as Kinzer. Do the research. This [2] is the Iran that the "puppet's…

Thanks for the elaboration! Having read only a single book on the subject, I figured that my account would be somewhat biased, even though I tried (through googling) to verify what I wrote. I'll refer to your links and try to widen my perspective!

Having said that, I think Kinzer do your view more justice than I did in my summary. I do apologize for over simplifying things.

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