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Marc Andreessen Pro-Colonialism Tweet Riles India Tech World

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Re: Marc Andreessen Pro-Colonialism Tweet Riles India Tech World

#131

Post by jccc »

sangnoir wrote: post #117
jccc wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which interpretation is at least as uncharitable as the one that thinks he said India should have remained a colony of Britain? Any other (more sane) interpretation might be a really, really profoundly stupid statement, as well. I don't care and am not qualified to argue those. The point is that we can't have meaningful conversations when so many people jump immediately on the misinterpretation of a statement that is…

> Any other (more sane) interpretation might be a really, really profoundly stupid statement, as well Agreed. The exercise in measuring charitability is merely academic in this instance. The bottom line is a VC has said a really stupid thing which goes against his earlier pronouncements on NN, because he literally has money on the line as an FB investor. Which ever way you look at it, he sounds like an out-of-touch c…

Then criticize him on that basis:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11073021

The exercise in measuring charitability is merely academic in this instance.

If we value having any kind of meaningful discussion then does it really not matter that we criticize on the grounds you mention and not just seize on the opportunity to mischaracterize a statement as pro-colonialist?

Re: Marc Andreessen Pro-Colonialism Tweet Riles India Tech World

#132

Post by nileshtrivedi »

morgante wrote: post #72
k-mcgrady wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I think you may be right in your interpretation how is maintaining net neutrality by India 'anti-colonialist'?

As a policy position, I don't think it is. However, if you look at a lot of the rhetoric that has been used it is heavily influenced by anti-colonialism. (Don't let this Western company come in and colonize our Internet.) I suspect the debate would have been quite different if it were ex. Flipkart offering Free Basics.

Funny. First the net neutrality activists were accused of being soft on foreign companies: https://twitter.com/_sachinbansal/status/585770383682375680 (This was by Flipkart CEO, Sachin Bansal)

And now they're being called "anti-west".

In case you don't know, the whole movement started as opposition to Airtel Zero and people downvoted en-masse Flipkart's app on Play Store because it was participating in Airtel Zero. Facebook brought attention to itself by a 40m$ ad-campaign, demonizing and slandering the activists AND DDoSing the regulator.

Re: Marc Andreessen Pro-Colonialism Tweet Riles India Tech World

#133

Post by JoeAltmaier »

protomyth wrote: post #115
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about German culture, institutions and law? How about Bohemian? Austrian? Italian? Czech? Polish? America was last a British colony, but it was far from a uniform culture of expat British. And it reinvented itself violently upon rebellion. Into something quite new in the world. Or at least not seen in a long time. And definitely not British.

Well, that's not exactly true. American is another child of the Magna Carta and we definitely (at the North's insistence) adopted the British economic system (Capitalism). Originally, Americans fought for their rights as British subjects, and later turned towards independence when that was not going to happen. Yes, the American government was a new thing, but it was built on a foundation already understood by the fou…

They did something like that - they would defer decisions until they'd heard from the representative of the colony (the Governor?) In fact that was all the 'representation' that the American colony wanted in that slogan "No taxation without Representation!" (perhaps the worst political slogan of all time?) Just to be heard. Because our colony rep arrived a day or two too late to speak on the tea tax, designed to defray Britain' expenses for the defense of the Colony.

Ironically the representative would have spoken in favor! But because he was not heard at all (and his objection dismissed as irrelevant), that put colonists in the same bucket as slaves and women - those who were not heard in government. That was what was intolerable.

Re: Marc Andreessen Pro-Colonialism Tweet Riles India Tech World

#134

Post by Brakenshire »

dharmach wrote: post #109
Brakenshire wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's prior to the industrial revolution compared to after the industrial revolution. It's the same story with India, Russia and China - during that period the global economy shifted from being overwhelmingly defined by agriculture and other products of manual labour (and therefore being heavily dependent on population) to being defined by industrial production. Britain treated India as an extractive economy, were i…

The opinion is that the West fueled industrialization with the looted wealth from colonies.

I think that's almost certainly true, but again I'd go back to the example of Russia, where the elite continued to put their wealth principally into competitive status symbols rather than industrialization for almost two centuries after the industrial revolution started. Elites siphoning off wealth for their luxury, rather than investing in society or the economy, has been the rule, not the exception, for the majority of human history, and the Mughals certainly had been doing that in India for centuries before the British arrived. Empiricism and scientific enquiry also got going centuries before industrialization, I admit I don't know much about Indian intellectual life in the 17th century, but did they really have an equivalent of the Royal Society, or of Newton?

Re: Marc Andreessen Pro-Colonialism Tweet Riles India Tech World

#135

Post by cookiecaper »

mikeash wrote: post #130
cookiecaper wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>IMO this is a flaw with twitter. Blocks are two-way: I don't see their stuff, and they don't see my stuff. But whenever I'm blocking someone, it's just because I don't want to see their stuff. There's no reason to tie those together. Twitter tried to fix this and it was a PR disaster for them. http://archive.is/YMJCg

Well of course it was a PR disaster, they "fixed" it by removing the original blocking functionality altogether! Both "don't show me their stuff" and "don't show them my stuff" are useful, they just shouldn't be bundled.

I don't think "don't show them my stuff" is a legitimate option for a publication and broadcast platform like Twitter. It's so simple to evade the blocks that all it does is promote sockpuppetry, which just complicates attempts to control all that "harassment" (which, more often, is actually just simple disagreement) that Twitter users are concerned about.

If you don't want your tweets to be publicly visible, set your account to private. If you do want your tweets to be publicly visible, keep your account public. Those are the two valid options. "Blocking" someone from seeing your tweets just puts them an extra click away (the "logout" button). It's online security theater.

Re: Marc Andreessen Pro-Colonialism Tweet Riles India Tech World

#136

Post by protomyth »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #133
protomyth wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's not exactly true. American is another child of the Magna Carta and we definitely (at the North's insistence) adopted the British economic system (Capitalism). Originally, Americans fought for their rights as British subjects, and later turned towards independence when that was not going to happen. Yes, the American government was a new thing, but it was built on a foundation already understood by the fou…

They did something like that - they would defer decisions until they'd heard from the representative of the colony (the Governor?) In fact that was all the 'representation' that the American colony wanted in that slogan "No taxation without Representation!" (perhaps the worst political slogan of all time?) Just to be heard. Because our colony rep arrived a day or two too late to speak on the tea tax, designed to defr…

> "No taxation without Representation!" (perhaps the worst political slogan of all time?)

No, a true sentiment always.

I am talking about actual MPs from the colonies not the consult after the fact system and definitely not the way they ignored and ridiculed Benjamin Franklin.

Re: Marc Andreessen Pro-Colonialism Tweet Riles India Tech World

#137

Post by mvaliente2001 »

rayiner wrote: post #92
factorialboy wrote: post #4

Extremely stupid tweet by Andreessen. He probably doesn't even realize that, like most ignorant people. FYI it was socialism that held back the Indian economy during the 70s and 80s. And it was colonialism that drained the country's wealth for over two hundred years. Here, Mr. Andreessen, educate yourself: https://www.google.com/search?q=bengal+famine

One thing I never see mentioned in this debate is the fact that America was a British colony as well, and colonial status definitely drained American wealth for centuries (though obviously, the occupation of India was far more brutal). But I think it's highly unlikely that America ever would've become a superpower without the benefit of British culture, institutions, and law.

America was different in a couple of ways. Due to its geographical position, America's cultives were similar to the ones in England. In this way, America didn't become a mono-producer to serve England's economy, as was the fate of colonies closer to the equator.

Re: Marc Andreessen Pro-Colonialism Tweet Riles India Tech World

#138

Post by navinsylvester »

Freebasics is a poorly disguised but bold move to colonize Internet in developing countries. A brief prequel: http://blog.savetheinternet.in/what-facebook-wont-tell-you-a...

Freebasics campaign was so flawed and the desperation in willfully misleading people was not even on an acceptable moral terms. Facebook spent a whooping 100 Crore INR for promotion and used the term "Free Internet". More about this here: http://blog.savetheinternet.in/what-facebook-wont-tell-you-a...

Andreessen/zuckerberg is setting a very bad example here. These tweets are a testimony to the desperation and an act of trying to flex muscle. Tech industry luminaries are least expected to be willfully trying to rob the basic rights of a common man. Sadly we would remain silent partners to the spoiling fabric - if we don't vehemently oppose.

Re: Marc Andreessen Pro-Colonialism Tweet Riles India Tech World

#139

Post by morgante »

nileshtrivedi wrote: post #132
morgante wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a policy position, I don't think it is. However, if you look at a lot of the rhetoric that has been used it is heavily influenced by anti-colonialism. (Don't let this Western company come in and colonize our Internet.) I suspect the debate would have been quite different if it were ex. Flipkart offering Free Basics.

Funny. First the net neutrality activists were accused of being soft on foreign companies: https://twitter.com/_sachinbansal/status/585770383682375680 (This was by Flipkart CEO, Sachin Bansal) And now they're being called "anti-west". In case you don't know, the whole movement started as opposition to Airtel Zero and people downvoted en-masse Flipkart's app on Play Store because it was participating in Airtel Zero. F…

To be honest, I'm not interested enough in this debate to argue over it.

But you can certainly find plenty of people who equated Free Basics with digital colonialism. [1] Whether it is I don't have an opinion on.

Of course, anti-colonialism is not the only reason to support net neutrality (nor do I think it's the best one).

[1] http://www.thehindu.com/business/Industry/fear-of-facebook-c...

Re: Marc Andreessen Pro-Colonialism Tweet Riles India Tech World

#140

Post by nileshtrivedi »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #65

> India’s decision to block a free Internet service from Facebook Inc. How does Bloomberg lead with this "fact"? Facebook's offering is not Internet service, but a whitelisted pipe. Does Bloomberg normally willingly eat up and repeat corporate propaganda?

The "free" part is also not "from" Facebook. The telco (Reliance in India's case) bear the bandwidth costs.
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