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Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

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Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#171

Post by geomark »

bespoke_engnr wrote: post #71
timthelion wrote: post #24

I am an American living in Prague and will be among those to give up their citizenship. The new FBAR requirements and the recently pushed through changes that require foreign banks to report are really a huge burden. It is a significant legal risk to be an American overseas. The fines are insane for failiure to report, even if you owe no taxes! You can easilly land yourself with a $20 000 - $80 000 fine for having a…

I'm an American living in Europe. I report my income to the IRS every year, like you. Reading your comment gave me a scare -- what exactly would trigger the $20,000-80,000 fine or asset seizure? Is it a failure to report income taxes at all? Or do you make so much more than $100k/year that the double taxation is killing you? I'm just trying to figure out what, other than their already-reported income being audited, h…

It's the failure to file a FBAR every year that has meant some people have paid outrageous fines. That's separate from the income tax return.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#172

Post by bmelton »

mike_hearn wrote: post #131
chrisseaton wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If she's come to the conclusion that she doesn't need any of the services that she gets as a citizen, for the reasons you've given, then why is she still a citizen? Either it's worth it (including any emotional attachment) when you balance it against the cost or it isn't. But if she chooses to retain her citizenship then she's incurring a potential cost to the US, which surely it's reasonable for her to contribute to…

What costs? If she doesn't live there she imposes no costs on the USA. If she ever returned and started imposing costs, she'd also start paying taxes. Why is she still a citizen? The article says she's in the process of renouncing. Not done already probably because: • She might one day need to spend time with family or elderly relatives, even if she'd prefer to stay abroad. • The USA does not allow you to give up you…

Agreed with everything you said, but it's worth pointing out that Congress doesn't set the expatriation fees, the State Department does, which falls under the executive branch.

Ostensibly, the fees were raised as a reaction to Eduardo Saverin's expatriation for tax avoidance purposes.

Congress is to blame for plenty, but not this.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#173

Post by [deleted] »

arto wrote: post #42
jacquesm wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being stateless is not a good thing. It might seem that because you're member of none you are superior to all but having citizenship is not just a tax burden, it also allows you to partake in a lot of activities (such as travel, commerce and so on). Getting bank accounts and other goodies when you're stateless is rather troublesome.

> Being stateless is not a good thing. That's wholly a matter of individual preference. I know Mike Gogulski personally and I can attest to him being quite happy having made the choices he did, and no longer being part of what he perceives as an evil empire. The tax question never factored into his decision, it was moral questions that preoccupied him.

[deleted]

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#174

Post by m_mueller »

briandear wrote: post #138
timthelion wrote: post #24

I am an American living in Prague and will be among those to give up their citizenship. The new FBAR requirements and the recently pushed through changes that require foreign banks to report are really a huge burden. It is a significant legal risk to be an American overseas. The fines are insane for failiure to report, even if you owe no taxes! You can easilly land yourself with a $20 000 - $80 000 fine for having a…

Army coming to rescue? Nope. Here's a story about the US specifically NOT going to rescue Americans in Yemen: http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-04-22/americans-t... Have a look at this evacuation application: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/211837.pdf Here's the key wording: "3. I understand that: (a) I will be billed for the cost of my/our transportation no greater than the amount of a full-fare…

Blows my mind that you people can't even vote when living abroad. As a Swiss, the embassy registers me in either my home canton or my last residential canton for votes (i.e. all the people referendums) and elections. They send me the voting letters to my Japanese home address. Free of charge.

Things like this and the Flint water scandal make me want to never work in the US, even if it's just a year. Dealing with your tax authorities? No thank you.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#175

Post by bmelton »

paulsutter wrote: post #84
madaxe_again wrote: post #17

So, I know a us born billionaire who rescinded his citizenship last year to avoid fatca. He has successfully evaded both the US and UK tax authorities to the tune of half a billion or so, he tells me. The guy gives crazy amounts to philanthropic causes instead. He doesn't want his hard earned wealth pissed away by clueless bureaucrats. So. Anyone who tells you fatca has been a success is full of it. It penalises "nor…

He had to pay an exit tax on all his unrealized gains at the moment of rescinding citizenship, so it's almost certain that his taxes were much higher if he did so last year. Details please, or it didn't happen. Just for your own information: tax avoidance is legal and expected. Tax evasion is criminal and can result in prison. The distinction is that tax evasion is when you misrepresent the facts in your tax filings.

To my knowledge, the exit tax didn't exist before 2008.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#176

Post by geomark »

orbifold wrote: post #59
timthelion wrote: post #24

I am an American living in Prague and will be among those to give up their citizenship. The new FBAR requirements and the recently pushed through changes that require foreign banks to report are really a huge burden. It is a significant legal risk to be an American overseas. The fines are insane for failiure to report, even if you owe no taxes! You can easilly land yourself with a $20 000 - $80 000 fine for having a…

It seems rather strange to rescind citizenship because of tax issues, aren't there qualified tax advisors that can handle all of that for you? At least here in Germany they are quite affordable and usually pay for themselves because of the tax savings you get due to their advice. If you consult one you can also be rather confident that you don't accidentally forget about some new regulation.

For many people it isn't about taxes. It's the fact that due to FATCA they can't even have a bank account in the country where they have lived and worked for many years. Banks in some countries have closed the accounts of US citizens due to the cost of compliance with FATCA. Imagine suddenly being unable to cash your paycheck or pay your bills because as a US citizen you are a pariah to the banks of the country in which you live..

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#177

Post by Estragon »

dalke wrote: post #9

American citizens have to pay $2,350 to renounce citizenship? What kind of paperwork costs that much? (Or, why not just add more paperwork and charge $100K?) http://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/blog/renouncing-us-citiz... > 1. Consular officers must confirm that the potential renunciant fully understands the consequences of renunciation, including losing the right to reside in the United States without documentation…

It cost $750 to become a citizen, last time I checked.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#178

Post by amazon_not »

lhopki01 wrote: post #163
timthelion wrote: post #24

I am an American living in Prague and will be among those to give up their citizenship. The new FBAR requirements and the recently pushed through changes that require foreign banks to report are really a huge burden. It is a significant legal risk to be an American overseas. The fines are insane for failiure to report, even if you owe no taxes! You can easilly land yourself with a $20 000 - $80 000 fine for having a…

I lived in Nigeria during a period of violence when thousands died. One of my enduring memories was the reactions of the Americans living there at the time. They were so sure that the army would come and save them and when it didn't they were dumbfounded. When someone from the US eventually turned up after the violence had all died down all the US citizens were offered was the opportunity to be part of the convey out…

Movies perhaps?

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#179

Post by girzel »

wolfgke wrote: post #18
k-mcgrady wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "America is one of the few countries that could get away with this" There are actually only two countries that do it - the US and Eritrea.

I think China, too.

I've been in China for fifteen years, and haven't filed taxes for the past twelve, I think. I'm moving back to the States at the end of this year, and am deeply worried about integrating myself back into the good graces of the IRS.

Luckily I'm poor as rocks!

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#180

Post by c4n4rd »

dalke wrote: post #164
roddux wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, do you now have a citizenship in Prague? I am unaware how it works for Americans living in the EU.

https://www.justlanded.com/english/Czech-Republic/Czech-Repu... gives an idea of what's needed to become a Czech citizen. It's different for different countries in the EU.

Besides Prague being a beautiful place, what else made you decide to live there?

I am thinking about living in Europe too.. but it has been difficult to decide.

Thanks and cheers.

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