Why expat Americans are giving up their passports • Hacker News Board

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#161

Post by k-mcgrady » Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 1:22 PM UTC

forgetsusername wrote: post #112

jacquesm wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What premium is that over say being the holder of passport from the UK, NL, DE, FR, ES, IT, CH, SE, DK, NO, FI, BE or any one of a host of other countries that don't have such crazy tax rules?

> What premium is that over say being the holder of passport... You tell me; there's a whole article written here about how hard it is to give up the US passport. Here we have a woman who doesn't live in the country and doesn't want to pay taxes to the country, yet is torn up about not being "American". I don't get it.

Patriotism can be as deeply ingrained in people as religious beliefs. From an outsiders perspective the US seems like one of those countries where people defend it blindly like they would a religion.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#162

Post by harperlee » Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 1:22 PM UTC

klunger wrote: post #147

timthelion wrote: post #24

I am an American living in Prague and will be among those to give up their citizenship. The new FBAR requirements and the recently pushed through changes that require foreign banks to report are really a huge burden. It is a significant legal risk to be an American overseas. The fines are insane for failiure to report, even if you owe no taxes! You can easilly land yourself with a $20 000 - $80 000 fine for having a…

I am an American in Norway... I thought you only had to file FATCA for bank accounts that had more than $10,000 USD in them at some point in the past year. Not a few hundred. Are you sure about that? (if so, oh sh*t)

I think you need to report in any case, the $10,000 might be a threshold below which the bank does not inform you to the USA. The real threshold below which the bank needs to look at you is $50,000, or if you have stocks, funds, or investment-grade products, such as some insurances, $0, but some banks are using a lower threshold. Also do note that this is for preexisting accounts - new accounts need to be looked at and can end up being reported irrespective of the amount they hold.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#163

Post by lhopki01 » Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 1:27 PM UTC

timthelion wrote: post #24

I am an American living in Prague and will be among those to give up their citizenship. The new FBAR requirements and the recently pushed through changes that require foreign banks to report are really a huge burden. It is a significant legal risk to be an American overseas. The fines are insane for failiure to report, even if you owe no taxes! You can easilly land yourself with a $20 000 - $80 000 fine for having a…

I lived in Nigeria during a period of violence when thousands died. One of my enduring memories was the reactions of the Americans living there at the time. They were so sure that the army would come and save them and when it didn't they were dumbfounded. When someone from the US eventually turned up after the violence had all died down all the US citizens were offered was the opportunity to be part of the convey out of the city.

I wonder where the dead set certainty that the army will save them comes from?

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#164

Post by dalke » Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 1:28 PM UTC

roddux wrote: post #109

timthelion wrote: post #24

I am an American living in Prague and will be among those to give up their citizenship. The new FBAR requirements and the recently pushed through changes that require foreign banks to report are really a huge burden. It is a significant legal risk to be an American overseas. The fines are insane for failiure to report, even if you owe no taxes! You can easilly land yourself with a $20 000 - $80 000 fine for having a…

Out of curiosity, do you now have a citizenship in Prague? I am unaware how it works for Americans living in the EU.

https://www.justlanded.com/english/Czech-Republic/Czech-Repu... gives an idea of what's needed to become a Czech citizen.

It's different for different countries in the EU.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#165

Post by roel_v » Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 1:31 PM UTC

orbifold wrote: post #59

timthelion wrote: post #24

I am an American living in Prague and will be among those to give up their citizenship. The new FBAR requirements and the recently pushed through changes that require foreign banks to report are really a huge burden. It is a significant legal risk to be an American overseas. The fines are insane for failiure to report, even if you owe no taxes! You can easilly land yourself with a $20 000 - $80 000 fine for having a…

It seems rather strange to rescind citizenship because of tax issues, aren't there qualified tax advisors that can handle all of that for you? At least here in Germany they are quite affordable and usually pay for themselves because of the tax savings you get due to their advice. If you consult one you can also be rather confident that you don't accidentally forget about some new regulation.

For simple cases like a German with only German income filing in Germany, yes. But you do that yourself, if you spend a few hours reading up on the deductions. In the case of the OP, there is no 'upside' (i.e., potential to get a return if your deductions are high enough); it'll cost you if you made any money, regardless of whether it's been taxed already elsewhere. Plus what the others have said.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#166

Post by timthelion » Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 1:35 PM UTC

roddux wrote: post #109

timthelion wrote: post #24

I am an American living in Prague and will be among those to give up their citizenship. The new FBAR requirements and the recently pushed through changes that require foreign banks to report are really a huge burden. It is a significant legal risk to be an American overseas. The fines are insane for failiure to report, even if you owe no taxes! You can easilly land yourself with a $20 000 - $80 000 fine for having a…

Out of curiosity, do you now have a citizenship in Prague? I am unaware how it works for Americans living in the EU.

I am able to apply for Czech citizenship as I have been in the country for more than 5 years. I now have to pass some language exams and interviews. I hope that the fact that my grandmother is Czech will help.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#167

Post by HillRat » Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 1:38 PM UTC

michaelhoffman wrote: post #113

arto wrote: post #26

For those looking to renounce their U.S. citizenship, Mike Gogulski has chronicled and documented the whole paperwork-heavy process on his blog: http://www.nostate.com/about/ In his case, after submitting the paperwork and burning his passport on YouTube, he chose to not get another citizenship, which means he's now stateless.

Huh, I thought the U.S. wouldn't allow renunciation unless you had some other nationality already. Apparently they will.

Surprisingly enough, the relevant State guidance does say that the US will not prevent an individual from renouncing his or her citizenship even if they do not have another allegiance, though it recommends the consular official specifically warn such people of the difficulties of being stateless.

I've only known one truly stateless individual, but he was an Air Force officer in FRY who was in the U.S. on a joint NATO program when the civil war started, so the Pentagon worked with State to give him special status. Not the usual case.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#168

Post by lunchladydoris » Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 1:38 PM UTC

sk3l wrote: post #159

If you live abroad & give up your citizenship, I think you should sign a waiver clause giving US government release of liability for any security, diplomatic services, basically anything you'd ever ask for. The US is off the hook for your safety and comfort, forever. Perhaps this is already part of the process, not sure. IMO, depending on where you are living abroad, that might give one misgivings about turning in on…

I don't understand. If you've given up your citizenship, you are no longer a US citizen. Why would they have any liability?

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#169

Post by plcancel » Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 1:40 PM UTC

crdoconnor wrote: post #43

ascorbic wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Jane has lived and worked in France for 30 years drawing what she calls a "humble" salary. She has filed a tax return every year even though she earns significantly less than $106,000 a year." Hardly the 1%

She isn't the reason this article appeared in the BBC (it's effectively a reprinted press release, cf. Paul Graham's submarine). She also earns a good salary and is dropping citizenship basically in order not to have to fill out a form once a year. Either that or she's expecting a pay raise from her "humble" salary and will have to start paying a small amount of US tax. Either way, my sympathy dial isn't moving.

Please consider reading the article again (and put some WD-40 on that dial, friend!)

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#170

Post by geomark » Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 1:42 PM UTC

atlbeer wrote: post #154

klunger wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am an American in Norway... I thought you only had to file FATCA for bank accounts that had more than $10,000 USD in them at some point in the past year. Not a few hundred. Are you sure about that? (if so, oh sh*t)

You have to fail FACTA regardless if you hold an overseas account. If you hold less than $10k USD than it's a few check boxes and takes less than 10 minutes

Nope. You must file FBAR for all of your accounts only if the sum of them ever exceeded US$10,000 during the year. That requirement has been around for many years.

The IRS rules concerning FBAR are here: https://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Emplo...

And the pertinent text from that page: "Who Must File an FBAR United States persons are required to file an FBAR if: 1. the United States person had a financial interest in or signature authority over at least one financial account located outside of the United States; and 2. the aggregate value of all foreign financial accounts exceeded $10,000 at any time during the calendar year reported."

FATCA is a new burden on foreign financial institutions that requires them to report to the US government on US citizens who have accounts at their institutions. It's meant banks in several countries have refused services to US citizens and closed their accounts.