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Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

bbc.com

11–20 of 411 posts

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#11

Scared to turning my permanent residency into citizenship now.

Sorry to break it to you, but if you're a non-US citizen but a permanent resident in the US, you're a "US person": https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/22/120.15

This means that you're completely subject to US tax law, even if you leave the US. Congratulations! You're now subject to FATCA!

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#12

America is one of the few countries that could get away with this, as being American has such a premium. It'd be nice to see them use their clout to force through legislation that stopped companies from playing silly beggars with their offshore profits if they wanted access to US markets.

What premium is that over say being the holder of passport from the UK, NL, DE, FR, ES, IT, CH, SE, DK, NO, FI, BE or any one of a host of other countries that don't have such crazy tax rules?

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#13
>Her voice cracks and her eyes well up. She is in the process of relinquishing her American nationality. Soon she'll visit the US embassy formally to renounce her citizenship, she says, under duress.

>"I'm very proud of being an American. It's what I am when I look in the mirror.

>"If it weren't for Fatca [the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act] and the decision by the bank, I'd never be doing this. Never ever. It's just breaking me in half."

Caterwauling by the 1%.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#14

This affects my girlfriend. She has a dual passport but only lived in the US to the age of six months. We are are British but live in Spain which already makes for complex tax arrangements, and this on top of things is just crazy. How the hell does the US think it has the right to tax people who haven't lived there for over 30 years?

That's debatable but as the article notes citizenship-based income tax has been part of US law for a long time without that much issue (the standard deduction is already pretty high, it's just a pain in the ass that you have to declare it but most expats have been living with that for a long time).

FATCA is utterly bonkers though.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#15
I don't even have to click to know what this is about. God damn government wants to tax me despite being overseas.

Don't get me wrong here. I love my country but hot damn do I hate our government. HK or UK or Canadian passport would probably be nearly as good but without any of the bullshit.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#16
post #8

America is one of the few countries that could get away with this, as being American has such a premium. It'd be nice to see them use their clout to force through legislation that stopped companies from playing silly beggars with their offshore profits if they wanted access to US markets.

Does it have such a premium? Having an EU passport works preeeetty well too.

Indeed: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/top-10-most-powerful-passport...

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#17
So, I know a us born billionaire who rescinded his citizenship last year to avoid fatca.

He has successfully evaded both the US and UK tax authorities to the tune of half a billion or so, he tells me.

The guy gives crazy amounts to philanthropic causes instead. He doesn't want his hard earned wealth pissed away by clueless bureaucrats.

So. Anyone who tells you fatca has been a success is full of it. It penalises "normal" people, and the evaders keep on evading. Uruguay is where they've all now got citizenship.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#18

America is one of the few countries that could get away with this, as being American has such a premium. It'd be nice to see them use their clout to force through legislation that stopped companies from playing silly beggars with their offshore profits if they wanted access to US markets.

>> "America is one of the few countries that could get away with this" There are actually only two countries that do it - the US and Eritrea.

I think China, too.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#19
post #10

Doesn't US have bilateral tax treaties with (at least) Western European counties? And shouldn't such a treaty strive to protect American citizens from paying double taxes?

The problem isn't citizenship-based taxation, it's an odd concept but it's been there for a very long time, there's a relatively high standard deduction and IIRC your local income tax is also deductible. Expats have dealt with that for more than a century.

As the article points out, the problem is FATCA which doesn't come close to fixing the issue it's supposed to fix (income tax evasion) and completely breaks expats under the standard deduction limit.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#20
post #11

Scared to turning my permanent residency into citizenship now.

Sorry to break it to you, but if you're a non-US citizen but a permanent resident in the US, you're a "US person": https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/22/120.15 This means that you're completely subject to US tax law, even if you leave the US. Congratulations! You're now subject to FATCA!

Except of course that if and when he leaves he ceases to be that US person because he's no longer a permanent resident.
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