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Why I disagree when people say Microsoft is no longer leading the way

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Re: Why I disagree when people say Microsoft is no longer leading the way

#21

Post by mixmax »

shabda wrote: post #20
mixmax wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's also interesting to note that Microsoft, a company that many software experts agree makes inferior products, is also a huge market leader. This hints at something a lot of technically minded people oversee: Sales and marketing is what drives a company. Microsoft is probably the most savvy tech company out there when it comes to sales. Yes, they are stuffing things down people's throat, abusing their monopoly, an…

I was searching for the quote, well, we've been accused of a lot of things, but not being able to make money isn't one of them And all I can find is this HN ref. When did Ballmer say that?

If memory seves me correctly it was in revenge of the nerds.

Re: Why I disagree when people say Microsoft is no longer leading the way

#22

Post by rbanffy »

rightonein wrote: post #18

Also, I love this author's "Microsoft could be the right place for me, but then I decided it wasn't". I am pretty sure it was the other way around. It would be nice to know where such a genius works these days and what are his great contributions arising from his great wisdom.

Actually, I never applied for a job there. A good friend of mine who works for Microsoft scheduled an appointment in my behalf for a job opening he thought I would be interested, but I guess that, by that time, I was not as enthusiastic about the job as my interviewer expected and as other candidates were. I was contacted a couple times in the following years (the last one was about 2001 or 2002) but I have declined interviews since then.

I use to joke that my friend is jeopardizing his own job there every time he recommends me for job openings.

Re: Why I disagree when people say Microsoft is no longer leading the way

#23

Post by rbanffy »

rightonein wrote: post #17

Whenever any of guy guys assemble a multi-billion dollar company just by selling software you let me know. Or at least get a job with one of the companies you seem so keen to analyze in depth (Google, MS, Apple, IBM). Then maybe your opinions would count something. While you sit at your desk analyzing this and that, thousands of business flourish and make money, thanks to the privacy killers (Google), the imperial mo…

> "Hacker" folks need to understand that software is just a tool for business and consumers to use to get shit done

Interesting. I was under the impression businesses and customers were only the tools we use to finance the software we want to build. ;-)

Re: Why I disagree when people say Microsoft is no longer leading the way

#24

Post by bad_user »

rightonein wrote: post #17

Whenever any of guy guys assemble a multi-billion dollar company just by selling software you let me know. Or at least get a job with one of the companies you seem so keen to analyze in depth (Google, MS, Apple, IBM). Then maybe your opinions would count something. While you sit at your desk analyzing this and that, thousands of business flourish and make money, thanks to the privacy killers (Google), the imperial mo…

> "Hacker" folks need to understand that software is just a tool for business and consumers to use to get shit done; it's not an end on itself.

You're saying it like "hacker folks" are the only ones with this "misconception".

When Graham Bell invented the telephone, or when Thomas Edison invented the radio, or when Einstein developed the relativity theory, or when Benjamin Franklin did research on electricity ... guess these guys where all thinking ... "what tools to make for businesses and consumers to get shit done".

Yeah, that makes lots of sense :)

Re: Why I disagree when people say Microsoft is no longer leading the way

#25

Post by whatusername »

motters wrote: post #5

Microsoft lost its way quite a long time ago. In the 1990s it was pretty much invincible, but after that things began to unravel. For me the lowlights were: Windows ME - it self-destructed on me after a few months of usage Internet Explorer 6 - gave me the best possible incentive to move to Firefox Windows Genuine (Dis)Advantage - for me was really the final straw Windows XP was highly successful though, although aga…

IE 6 - gave me the best possible incentive to move from netscape.

Let's remember - IE6 was better than anything else (except maybe IE5/Mac) at the time it came out. Opera might be an exception, but you had to pay for it so no thanks.

Re: Why I disagree when people say Microsoft is no longer leading the way

#26

Post by lukifer »

Whatever else they may be doing, Microsoft is sure digging in its heels when it comes to innovating on the web. Internet Explorer is the primary reason that web devs can't make wide use of standards like CSS3, , and WebSockets. Even their recent backing of SVG is nearly worthless, given that most features of SVG are already usable via Raphael and VML.

Re: Why I disagree when people say Microsoft is no longer leading the way

#27

Post by koanarc »

Dbug wrote: post #13
motters wrote: post #5

Microsoft lost its way quite a long time ago. In the 1990s it was pretty much invincible, but after that things began to unravel. For me the lowlights were: Windows ME - it self-destructed on me after a few months of usage Internet Explorer 6 - gave me the best possible incentive to move to Firefox Windows Genuine (Dis)Advantage - for me was really the final straw Windows XP was highly successful though, although aga…

"Windows XP was highly successful though, although again they really failed to do anything very innovative with that OS other than keep it stable." Just as some seem to look back on Microsoft and portray it as having been so good, there seem to be some rose colored glasses looking at XP too. Yes it was hugely better than earlier consumer versions of Windows, but between it's inferiority to OS X, and massive number of…

You had me until: "Nixon, the criminal, sure looks saintly now." I adjusted for hyperbole, but still.

Maybe it's only because my generation's closest ties to Nixon are via Hunter S. Thompson's popular invectives, but I don't know of anybody who thinks that Dicky M. deserves any more veneration than a kidney stone. But then, I suppose I never have had a very keen eye, when it comes to finding the inner beauty of politicians...

Re: Why I disagree when people say Microsoft is no longer leading the way

#28

Post by jimbokun »

mixmax wrote: post #9
grellas wrote: post #6

Perception is interesting here. I have worked with startups in Silicon Valley since 1984 and remember the ever-increasing dismay throughout the period extending right up to the early-to-mid-90s of the "UNIX guys" (that is how I saw them) as they were almost ready to explode watching Microsoft apparently taking over first the consumer desktop and then the enterprise with what they saw as crappy products relative to th…

it's also interesting to note that Microsoft, a company that many software experts agree makes inferior products, is also a huge market leader. This hints at something a lot of technically minded people oversee: Sales and marketing is what drives a company. Microsoft is probably the most savvy tech company out there when it comes to sales. Yes, they are stuffing things down people's throat, abusing their monopoly, an…

This was true for a long time, but I think a case can be made that today Apple sells better than Microsoft.

Of course, Apple sells to consumers, Microsoft to businesses. Again, for a long time it looked like selling to business was the better market to be in, but now it is not as clear.

Re: Why I disagree when people say Microsoft is no longer leading the way

#29

Post by rbanffy »

bad_user wrote: post #24
rightonein wrote: post #17

Whenever any of guy guys assemble a multi-billion dollar company just by selling software you let me know. Or at least get a job with one of the companies you seem so keen to analyze in depth (Google, MS, Apple, IBM). Then maybe your opinions would count something. While you sit at your desk analyzing this and that, thousands of business flourish and make money, thanks to the privacy killers (Google), the imperial mo…

> "Hacker" folks need to understand that software is just a tool for business and consumers to use to get shit done; it's not an end on itself. You're saying it like "hacker folks" are the only ones with this "misconception". When Graham Bell invented the telephone, or when Thomas Edison invented the radio, or when Einstein developed the relativity theory, or when Benjamin Franklin did research on electricity ... gue…

PHBs never learn, do they? ;-)
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