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LinkedIn dark patterns, or why your friends keep spamming you to sign up for it

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Re: LinkedIn dark patterns, or why your friends keep spamming you to sign up for it

#61
I don't like the term "dark patterns" because it's not something that non-technical users will recognize. Especially in conjunction with user interfaces, dark pattern sounds like a graphic design term. Something like "deceptive user interface" is clearer and actually expresses the sliminess of the intended design. Is there catchy name for "deceptive user interface"?

Also, who are the sociopaths designing and coding these deceptive user interfaces? Have they no empathy for their users?

Re: LinkedIn dark patterns, or why your friends keep spamming you to sign up for it

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if we were to design an alternative to linkedin (for IT/technical folks), what would be the features you'd want? The ability to confidently wipe all data you've ever fracked from me as part of deleting the account if/when I chose to leave your service. Please plan the delete operations as a core part of your architecture, rather than an addon you can't properly support because you didn't think about deleting data wh…

Well, whatever we build is archive-able at anytime, so it's hard to technically disallow backup of data if Eve is bent on spidering all of the data. Instead how about no contact-data (email/phone) be made publically available at all. And all friends request, messages or recruiter contacts goto a public box for that contact? So we can recycle old PO boxes after set intervals, and you only listen to the latest one. Any…

>Anyone trying to reach you has to be OKed by you.

It's got nothing to do with other people. When your company goes under, and historically speaking most do, someone will buy your DB. With all your debts, you won't be in a position to refuse. Who will the buyer be? What countries laws will they operate under? Will /they/ be willing to protect my contact data? Or will they sell it to telemarketers for a quick buck?

Sorry, but if you can't find a way to let me wipe my data, even if it takes 6 months while your backups cycle, I'm not interested and never will be.

Re: LinkedIn dark patterns, or why your friends keep spamming you to sign up for it

#63
LinkedIn has become such a joke now, even literally with comedians making fun of all these LinkedIn invites. Plenty of people who don't know the phrase 'dark pattern' have experienced it and know they've experienced something truly messed up. I have no doubt this has been reflected in their recent stock price--rightfully so. I hope this is a lesson to other purveyors of dark patterns, but I doubt it.

Re: LinkedIn dark patterns, or why your friends keep spamming you to sign up for it

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not doing 'creepy' things with your data ( http://www.interactually.com/linkedin-creepiest-social-netwo... ) Related discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9045677 and archived page: https://web.archive.org/web/20150812004139/http://www.stopus...

It's hard to convert this to technical requirement -- this is largely a moral requirement on someone running the service. That's the second best option -- first would be this being technicall not possible. The only way I can think of to deter this is cost per action. So accounts start with some virtual (or real) currency which spends on actions like connecting or adding to the graph. This will at-least minimize if no…

> It's hard to convert this to technical requirement -- this is largely a moral requirement on someone running the service. That's the second best option -- first would be this being technicall not possible.

It's hard to imagine this idea getting traction, but one way to implement this would be to require new features to be approved by (say) a majority of active users. This could act as a brake on roll-out of creepy features (if people read before approving …), but it might also slow or retard genuine advancements (although "no to constant interface re-design" is a feature in my book).

Re: LinkedIn dark patterns, or why your friends keep spamming you to sign up for it

#65

Here's a question to HN: if we were to design an alternative to linkedin (for IT/technical folks), what would be the features you'd want? I'll start: 1) The ability to go no-opportunities. When you're not looking for work, you turn this on, and you will not turn up on any search result. 2) Simple export API, with a guarantee of you having complete say over your data. You may export as a json anytime, and import into…

for 1) you generally don't want to advertise that you are looking for work while still employed. Showing-up in results is the equivalent of painting a target on your back.

Re: LinkedIn dark patterns, or why your friends keep spamming you to sign up for it

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should it instead be only a directory of people currently looking for opportunities. People who find work, take themselves off the directory, and people who want work add themselves in?

I think you'll end up with primarily new grads in the site with this policy. If you're employed and discreetly looking for new work and you 'activate' your profile, now everyone in the office knows you're looking to switch jobs.

has anyone yet found a job on linkedin by flipping some flag? just curious. my experience is that linkedin is a source of spam targets for agencies, but i haven't heard of a single case when people were found/contacted by potential employer directly.

Re: LinkedIn dark patterns, or why your friends keep spamming you to sign up for it

#67
post #58

Last night I applied for a job, and there was a link that you can click to allow the website to access your LinkedIn information. I clicked on this. I usually breeze through this because all these applications just want to access your basic information. I entered my password and hit enter when I looked at the screen and realized that I agreed to the following: iCIMS would like to access some of your LinkedIn info: YO…

> This is a category of dark patterns: have the user click on something that has been benign the last 20 times they've seen something similar, but this time isn't.

This is the nature of OAuth, in which the scopes can be different for many different clients. Not that this makes it any better, you just need to be aware of it. Slideshare do the same thing when you click download - if you verify using linkedin they want access to everything on your linked in profile just so you can download the slides. Ridiculous (even if they're essentially the same company).

Changing your password here is no good, you need to go to linkedin and then your account settings, then third party apps and delete whatever it was you allowed to connect. Despite all the failings of OAuth that's one of the good features about it, you can actually control the access.

Tip: if you're logging in using OAuth (generally when you get redirected to another site to confirm) always check the requested scopes and always remove all the scopes but those essential to the functioning of the calling app/site, which is usually just access to your e-mail address.If you can't disallow certain scopes then try logging in using something else, github, facebook, whatever, and rinse and repeat. If you're still not happy then just signup with a throw away email.

Re: LinkedIn dark patterns, or why your friends keep spamming you to sign up for it

#69
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you and this is a reminder of how critical it is to use a different password for these accounts and for your email address. Because LinkedIn put what is essentially a fishing screen in front of you where they ask you for your email address and password. Now you can very easily have used your email address to log in to LinkedIn and therefore you can easily assume this is linked in asking you to relogin. W…

I fell for this years ago. It's super creepy. I only recently figured out where to go to delete that data, but I still get creepy suggestions.

Where do you go? I've hunted around a lot - it's really uncomfortable that they tell you "nothing is connected" and then recommend people you've dated...

Re: LinkedIn dark patterns, or why your friends keep spamming you to sign up for it

#70
post #67
post #58

Last night I applied for a job, and there was a link that you can click to allow the website to access your LinkedIn information. I clicked on this. I usually breeze through this because all these applications just want to access your basic information. I entered my password and hit enter when I looked at the screen and realized that I agreed to the following: iCIMS would like to access some of your LinkedIn info: YO…

> This is a category of dark patterns: have the user click on something that has been benign the last 20 times they've seen something similar, but this time isn't. This is the nature of OAuth, in which the scopes can be different for many different clients. Not that this makes it any better, you just need to be aware of it. Slideshare do the same thing when you click download - if you verify using linkedin they want…

Thanks. I had quite a few apps in there.
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