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A Group of American Teens Are Excelling at Advanced Math

theatlantic.com

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Re: A Group of American Teens Are Excelling at Advanced Math

#31

Post by dominotw »

what a strange thing to subject your kids to, shame on these parents.

Has anyone done any studies on what these 'math wizards' end up doing in life.

I grew up in Indian community where this kind of stuff was the norm, many of my friends won regional championships but none of them do anything remotely related to math now. Instead of associating math with magical patterns that explain the world, they now associate it with stress/anxiety/competition.

Please don't do this repulsive stuff to your kids, read Richard Feynman's bio and see how his parents inspired him to like math/science/world.

Re: A Group of American Teens Are Excelling at Advanced Math

#32

Post by dominotw »

dineshp2 wrote: post #8

The fundamental problem of education in public schools and its ineffectiveness is not being addressed. It's great that many of these extracurricular clubs and institutes exist to impart advanced education to interested students. But it does not solve the underlying problem.

>The fundamental problem of education in public schools and its ineffectiveness is not being addressed.

If it so ineffective, how come americans win so many nobel prizes, have thriving high tech industry ect

http://graphics.wsj.com/which-country-has-the-most-nobel-pri...

Re: A Group of American Teens Are Excelling at Advanced Math

#33

Post by Thirdegree »

j2kun wrote: post #5

I am continually surprised by how many emails I get from teenage students thanking me for writing my math blog. On top of that, I try to occasionally make it out to high schools to give guest lectures. I posted an example experience from one of these online [1] and I am usually looking for other opportunities to do this sort of thing. I think that if every math graduate student who is a reasonably good teacher took a…

Let me add one more thank you for that blog, it's one of 6 I have saved to bookmarks. I love it!

Re: A Group of American Teens Are Excelling at Advanced Math

#34

Post by dineshp2 »

jerf wrote: post #23
dineshp2 wrote: post #8

The fundamental problem of education in public schools and its ineffectiveness is not being addressed. It's great that many of these extracurricular clubs and institutes exist to impart advanced education to interested students. But it does not solve the underlying problem.

It's a step in solving the underlying problem, since at this point only someone studiously incapable of learning from history can think that the school system is going to produce a superior math curriculum on its own. I'd say "it had its chance", but that's hardly true... it has had its several dozen chances.

As the article clearly states, these math programs are only attended by the well off due to awareness and finances not being a hindrance.

What about the vast majority of students who don't get to attend these type of programs?

We need to come up with solutions that are inclusive and accessible to the vast majority of students. Clearly inclusiveness and accessibility are missing from these programs.

The methods that these programs use to promote the development of problem solving in students are novel. Maybe they can be incorporated into school curriculum and better train the teachers to handle this new approach to learning.

Re: A Group of American Teens Are Excelling at Advanced Math

#35

Post by oldmanjay »

cschneid wrote: post #29
jerf wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mostly only well-educated and well-off parents get their kids into these programs. That kind of sucks," It's really important not to let 201x social concerns get in the way of this stuff. The good stuff always starts out with the rich. Always. It is virtually structurally impossible for it to happen any other way. (Not quite , but very much the exception rather than the rule.) Rather than complaining that only the r…

It's easy to want to simply to steal from the rich, as you point out. But that's not our current style of failure, it's "hey poor district, you're not up to snuff compared to the rich district. We're going to fire all the teachers, gut your union, and generally make your life hell. That's sure to make you do better".

Poor management by the government is hardly a surprise. Systems have to be constructed to deal with that as a reality. Or we need to stop hiring managers based on how popular they are.

Re: A Group of American Teens Are Excelling at Advanced Math

#36

Post by dineshp2 »

dominotw wrote: post #32
dineshp2 wrote: post #8

The fundamental problem of education in public schools and its ineffectiveness is not being addressed. It's great that many of these extracurricular clubs and institutes exist to impart advanced education to interested students. But it does not solve the underlying problem.

>The fundamental problem of education in public schools and its ineffectiveness is not being addressed. If it so ineffective, how come americans win so many nobel prizes, have thriving high tech industry ect http://graphics.wsj.com/which-country-has-the-most-nobel-pri...

You cannot conclude that the current school education is not ineffective(effective) just by looking at the number of Nobel Prize winners.

The USA is lagging behind many countries in key areas( especially STEM fields).

Anyway the point I was trying to make was that, these extracurricular initiatives are great, but it cannot be a solution to a poor public school system.

Re: A Group of American Teens Are Excelling at Advanced Math

#37

Post by jerf »

dineshp2 wrote: post #34
jerf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a step in solving the underlying problem, since at this point only someone studiously incapable of learning from history can think that the school system is going to produce a superior math curriculum on its own. I'd say "it had its chance", but that's hardly true... it has had its several dozen chances.

As the article clearly states, these math programs are only attended by the well off due to awareness and finances not being a hindrance. What about the vast majority of students who don't get to attend these type of programs? We need to come up with solutions that are inclusive and accessible to the vast majority of students. Clearly inclusiveness and accessibility are missing from these programs. The methods that t…

Well, see my other post in this thread. This is an example of exactly what I was talking about. If your only response to stuff like this is to complain about how it's not "fair", you take one step towards preventing it from even existing in the first place. Who wants to try anything new if the only thing they're going to hear is "But it's not being evenly distributed to everybody!"?

This is step one. Before we can "come up with solutions that are inclusive" we need to just plain come up with solutions! Don't kill that with complaining long before it's relevant about how "fair" it is.

Is it really so wrong that the rich are willing to be guinea pigs anyhow? It is, after all, ultimately disingenuous to complain that the school systems aren't seeing this improvement because whenever the school systems suggest trying this sort of improvement the complaint about using kids as guinea pigs and ohmigosh their futures will be wrecked immediately come up. You can't have it every which way. This is a significant chunk of the mechanism that has rendered national-scale schooling impossible to innovate with anyhow.

Re: A Group of American Teens Are Excelling at Advanced Math

#38

Post by [deleted] »

Ntrails wrote: post #25
j2kun wrote: post #5

I am continually surprised by how many emails I get from teenage students thanking me for writing my math blog. On top of that, I try to occasionally make it out to high schools to give guest lectures. I posted an example experience from one of these online [1] and I am usually looking for other opportunities to do this sort of thing. I think that if every math graduate student who is a reasonably good teacher took a…

The sad thing is that the cool stuff isn't even always complex. It's little things, like going through how the quadratic formula is derived instead of just telling someone to learn it by rote. Explaining differentiation with a bit of the logic behind it instead of just teaching rules. But at the same time - I know I'd have/did enjoy that stuff but maybe 60% of my classes would have played up if a whole lesson was spe…

[deleted]

Re: A Group of American Teens Are Excelling at Advanced Math

#39

Post by sdenton4 »

dominotw wrote: post #31

what a strange thing to subject your kids to, shame on these parents. Has anyone done any studies on what these 'math wizards' end up doing in life. I grew up in Indian community where this kind of stuff was the norm, many of my friends won regional championships but none of them do anything remotely related to math now. Instead of associating math with magical patterns that explain the world, they now associate it w…

The sort of thinking in Feynman's bio is what drives math circles, though.

I taught at a math circle for a few years; we did 'looking at awesome stuff' for two thirds of the year, and competition prep for one third of the year. Different kids came for different parts, but will came out smarter for the experience, I think.

Re: A Group of American Teens Are Excelling at Advanced Math

#40

Post by jacobolus »

Ntrails wrote: post #25
j2kun wrote: post #5

I am continually surprised by how many emails I get from teenage students thanking me for writing my math blog. On top of that, I try to occasionally make it out to high schools to give guest lectures. I posted an example experience from one of these online [1] and I am usually looking for other opportunities to do this sort of thing. I think that if every math graduate student who is a reasonably good teacher took a…

The sad thing is that the cool stuff isn't even always complex. It's little things, like going through how the quadratic formula is derived instead of just telling someone to learn it by rote. Explaining differentiation with a bit of the logic behind it instead of just teaching rules. But at the same time - I know I'd have/did enjoy that stuff but maybe 60% of my classes would have played up if a whole lesson was spe…

To anyone else confused, apparently “played up” is a British colloquialism for “misbehaved”. :-)
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