Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#521

Post by magicalist » Tue, Feb 09, 2016, 8:08 AM UTC

wlesieutre wrote: post #398

magicalist wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Agreed. I'm unfortunately forced to use the Hangouts app on android since Google Voice was smushed into it (losing 90% of its best features in the process, like being able to mark voicemails as spam). So now I'm stuck doing my texting shoehorned alongside this other chat app that none of my friends use except by accident when they meant to send a text. You can go into hangouts settings and turn off google voice han…

The problem was actually that once you'd migrated a GV account to using hangouts, there was no way to go back. Did a bit of looking and this is no longer the case: http://i.imgur.com/qtxfYGP.png So I guess I can go back. I'd miss the better voice calling integration (the one improvement that "hangouts dialer" brought) and I'm not sure how well maintained the GV app is these days, but I may give it a go.

For a data point of one: I refused the popup and never switched and things work the same as ever for me. The only annoying thing is that you get that dialog every single time you visit the website. The app is virtually the same as it's been for years, for better or worse.

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#522

Post by VeejayRampay » Tue, Feb 09, 2016, 8:13 AM UTC

DigitalJack wrote: post #517

VeejayRampay wrote: post #86

Their software was never great to begin with. But there was a form of uniqueness, some innovation. That much is gone now. Despite the fact that they're developing for their own hardware, despite the hundreds of billions, their software is neither especially fast nor particularly reliable.

I can't compare to windows 10, but I had to send my mbpr in for a screen replacement and while I waited for it to come back, I installed ubuntu on my old mbp. The desktop was a singularly terrible experience of bugginess. The bugs I experience in OSX are nothing compared to that experience. The only bug I notice right now is sometimes my wife's computer isn't accessible through Finder, and vice versa. Annoying but we…

I hear your point, but I feel like the comparison is not fair to Ubuntu. Like I said, Apple develops their own software for their own hardware. They control the whole thing. One can HOPE that everything will work out of the box. Ubuntu on the other hand has a MUCH harder task at hand depending on the computer and it's a known fact that common hardware has better support (Intel chipsets in general for example). The libre community is also spreading itself thinner by having to support every other architectures and hardware under the sun with little funding.

So my point was that given the extremely favorable conditions Apple is benefiting from (their own hardware, extremely forgiving users, bajillions of cash, advertising), they're not delivering the goods anymore.

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#523

Post by diebir » Tue, Feb 09, 2016, 8:16 AM UTC

Well, Apple software does kind of suck in some areas (tragically broken package manager is one area!!), but it is not too unstable. I have got here a 2 year old MacBook Pro.

The uptime on this thing is usually around 60 days, at least. I have at all times around 40 tabs open in Chrome and do heavy Java development in IntelliJ IDEA.

I don't think this laptop has ever crashed in these 2 years. Just never happened. I reboot once in a while when something like audio goes crazy or just in case after running out of memory with IntelliJ and a handful of other JVMs a few times in a row.

I have no illusions on usability of Apple software. I think they are teeming with idiots (iTunes, already mentioned package management, photo import app, text editor), but the OS is kind of rock solid. Why wouldn't be, it's a POSIX OS and consequently is relatively simple and logical, at least from API standpoint.

There are two things that drastically help with stability:

1. My account does not have admin privileges and I never give admin password to any prompts, unless I know for certain why.

2. I never install any software as administrator. If something does not want to install into ~/Applications (you know, drag and drop), I take it apart and "convince" to install.

3. I guess there's #3, no updates. Only clean OS installs once in a few years. It's a little scarier than the same tactic on Linux, where I am sure that this is not a real problem, but in most cases it's not an issue on Mac OS X either.

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#524

Post by Caprinicus » Tue, Feb 09, 2016, 8:18 AM UTC

ld00d wrote: post #438

chrisblackwell wrote: post #277

OSX fan here: Everyone is completely misunderstanding our recent criticisms of Apple software. We don't hate Apple software! We have seen a steady decline over the last few years, and so we are expressing our concerns. This does not translate to us hating the software. We know what Apple can do when it really focuses on the quality of it's software (see OSX Snow Leopard). I still think OSX is more stable and useable…

Even with the problems, I still prefer OS X to anything else. Apple claims a higher standard, and everyone wants to hold them to it. They're falling short of their standard, but they're falling to a higher point than the alternatives IMO.

Right, but I think it's still important to note because the user experience has gotten worse even if it is still the best.

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#525

Post by tommyd » Tue, Feb 09, 2016, 8:45 AM UTC

rsync wrote: post #453

aantix wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second I see iTunes is syncing I think to myself "oh fuck, oh fuck" and look to force quit the app as soon as possible. Then I spend the next half hour looking at the connected device to ensure my collection is still there. It's part of the reason why I switched over to the (defunct) Rdio. Managing the individual iTunes music files was just too stressful.

I have no dog in this fight, since I use neither itunes nor idevices, but ... You could 'chflag -R schg' the entire music dir, thus making it immutable - even for root - without chflagging it back. Then there's no more syncing risk. Just saying.

Afraid not, as it doesn't mount as a disk drive :(

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#526

Post by Yetanfou » Tue, Feb 09, 2016, 8:56 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #247

unethical_ban wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 27 and just want my rig to work. That's why I build my own PC, demand mobile phones with replaceable batteries, and have a great 6 year old Lenovo laptop that, besides a slow-ish CPU, is spec'ed pretty well for 2016.

Different strokes. I've got better things to do with my time. I'd rather walk into the Apple store and replace my MBA or my iPhone when I've got a problem. That saves me time for my wife or my hobbies. Trade money for things that save you time, to spend that time on what's important to you (if you've got the money).

Using non-apple hardware and software does not take more time, nor does it incur more frustration. It generally does cost less money for the same level of performance. It often lasts longer than the apple-branded alternative as well due to the relative ease of repair and upgrade where the apple-branded alternative would have to be replaced.

This saves me time for my wife, my children and my hobbies. It also saves me money. Time, and money, to spend on what's important to me. It also sends a signal to companies: there is a market for upgradable, repairable hardware.

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#527

Post by pjmlp » Tue, Feb 09, 2016, 8:57 AM UTC

jjoonathan wrote: post #306

nostrademons wrote: post #159

It's kinda weird to read commentators talking as if this was the end of a golden age of Apple. From my perspective, their application software has always sucked. It was there because you need apps to bootstrap a platform and attract enough users to attract developers. But you can't really expect a consumer electronics company to have the best application for a given niche once the niche has been identified and attrac…

> anyone who used the whole integrated Apple software suite and never looked elsewhere has been missing out on some seriously nice features this whole time Ditto for anyone not using the Apple ecosystem. Better tested drivers installed by default, no OS license hassles, no issues created by malfunctioning (or maliciously functioning) antivirus, top download sites weren't infested with malware (no hunt for the real DL…

> If you have used Windows all your life, you have taught yourself to live with a lot of BS.

Since Windows 3.x.

Macs were too expensive for Portuguese purses vs what Amiga, Atari and PC systems were asking for.

Also as a gamer I could never convince myself to pay more for less technical specs.

As for better drivers, Apple's OpenGL and OpenCL support leaves a lot to be desired when one is into graphics programming.

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#528

Post by spronkey » Tue, Feb 09, 2016, 9:01 AM UTC

jjoonathan wrote: post #430

greggman wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no-additional-cost professional-grade IDE since 2003 You paid for that by spending $XXX more than a PC on your Mac. (posted from a mac but I make no delusion that I didn't pay for XCode)

That's exactly why I used the awkward phrase "no additional cost" rather than "free." Even if I hadn't chosen my words carefully, "delusion" would be a strong word for attacking something that I didn't explicitly claim.

MS has had express editions of their IDEs available for quite some time....

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#529

Post by pjmlp » Tue, Feb 09, 2016, 9:02 AM UTC

Skunkleton wrote: post #188

nostrademons wrote: post #159

It's kinda weird to read commentators talking as if this was the end of a golden age of Apple. From my perspective, their application software has always sucked. It was there because you need apps to bootstrap a platform and attract enough users to attract developers. But you can't really expect a consumer electronics company to have the best application for a given niche once the niche has been identified and attrac…

> It was there because you need apps to bootstrap a platform and attract enough users to attract developers. But you can't really expect a consumer electronics company to have the best application for a given niche once the niche has been identified and attracted companies that really want to make it their bread-and-butter. I have a hard time with this. Apple products tend to lock you into apple software. If you want…

> If you want to develop software, then you are pretty much stuck with XCode.

GNU/Linux and *BSD are probably the only OSes where there is no such thing as an OS vendor SDK.

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#530

Post by tluyben2 » Tue, Feb 09, 2016, 9:14 AM UTC

criddell wrote: post #451

tluyben2 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently bought a Thinkpad to try if another platform would work. I first ran Windows 10 and found it unworkable and then installed Ubuntu, did some battery tweaking. It is great; have not touched my Mac since. Especially long battery life, swappable batteries and, for my taste, a better keyboard next to more ports is just better over all for my (full stack) dev.

How did you get great battery life from Ubuntu? I've never been able to get anything close to the runtime I get on OSX. In my experience, OSX gives me the longest batter life, second is Windows and any flavor of Linux is terrible (maybe 3-4 hours on a machine that Windows gives 5-6 hours).

I get 16 hours under my Lenovo with ubuntu with tlp default settings. I have to be careful a bit with browsers (they use most in my workflow) but usually I just use lynx for programming searches. OS X on my MBP is ghastly: Apple replaced the battery and I use the same software as under Ubuntu but I struggle to get 3 hrs. On my Air it was wonderful. Windows I have not used for anything serious in 20 years.