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Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

latimes.com

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Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#271

Post by protomyth »

addicted wrote: post #212
nostrademons wrote: post #159

It's kinda weird to read commentators talking as if this was the end of a golden age of Apple. From my perspective, their application software has always sucked. It was there because you need apps to bootstrap a platform and attract enough users to attract developers. But you can't really expect a consumer electronics company to have the best application for a given niche once the niche has been identified and attrac…

Even ignoring the ad-hominen, your comment is basically pointless, because people who have been complaining about Apple Software usually compare the software to the period before 2009 (whether true or not, Snow Leopard is considered the pinnacle of OSX and so you basically entered once the software got bad). Since you weren't even using Apple Software at the time, your judgment of whether Apple software used to be go…

a lot of Snow Leopard's good reputation was about the fixes and about how bad Lion was. The whole "Save As" and alter documents not expressly saved (a behavior Preview continues) screws up a lot of use cases.

That being said, I remember Panther and Snow Leopard after the .0.3 updates to be the best versions.

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#272

Post by NicoJuicy »

bobbles wrote: post #251
NicoJuicy wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a realistic comparison... My acculated sum of every webapplication i use is (outside of my business ofc): - 9 € / month ( Google Play Music) - 3 € / month ( Netflix shared with 3 other people) - 3€ / month for Google Apps ( actually, this is business... But i also use the mail for private use..) = 15 € / month. If i'm not mistaking, you're OS X device costs you 4 times more every month then the sum of ever…

>If i'm not mistaking, you're OS X device costs you 4 times more every month then the sum of every online webservice i use. Well.. you need something to run those things on

Well, my laptop costs 11,5 €/ month on the end of life ( cfr. other post) and i pay my ISP 25 € / month. So i still have less to pay with the sum of my webservices / laptop and ISP together then his 'power horse' :)

Is that any better? ;)

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#273

Post by tristor »

My experience has been that every new release of OS X is more unstable than the previous. I'd very much like to go back to Mavericks. It was the last release I used that seemed to be decently stable. Yosemite and El Capitan have so many problems.

* I've had to switch to a wired ethernet -> TB adapter and turned Wi-Fi off altogether because of Wi-Fi instability, despite having enterprise-grade WiFi APs in my house (Ruckus and Ubiquiti).

* Peaking out the CPU usage and GPU usage at the same time almost guarantees a kernel panic despite Apple's hardware diagnostics reporting no problem and my Fluke temperature probe not showing temperatures going above 90C (although to be fair, that's very hot... that's standard Macbook Pro temps).

* Crazy audio issues for SPDIF, despite it being a basic standardized protocol that's had kernel support since OSX was released, every time they come out with a new version they manage to make SPDIF output break in strange ways.

* Sleep/Resume/Hibernate no longer works reliably, many times instead of waking up the system will simply reboot.

* Bluetooth devices (specifically Magic Trackpad 2) will disconnect and then reconnect randomly for no apparent reason.

I don't even use any of the Apple provided software other than OS X itself, but I still have seen the product go rapidly downhill. I went from being an Apple hater to being a hardcore Mac user, to now back to being an Apple hater that's just waiting until I can find a decently reliable Linux ultrabook (Lenovo X1 Carbon maybe?). The repairability of a laptop isn't even a concern to me at this point, I consider buying a laptop a sunk cost of being in a technical job. I just need it to work reliably because I depend on it for my livelihood and it's currently unacceptable.

The other day I was working remotely and in a conference call with the CTO and had a kernel panic twice in a row because I was doing `vagrant up` in the background which kicked me out of the call. How does that look for my professional reputation when I have technical difficulties during a call and I'm supposed to be a senior level technical staffer? Totally unacceptable.

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#275

Post by sjm-lbm »

kordless wrote: post #80
sjm-lbm wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The extra annoying part is that Apple's total lack of reputability is starting to spread to competing products - a lot of Android phones have dropped user-replaceable batteries, for instance, and a sizable amount of good Windows ultrabooks are about as repairable as MacBooks.

> extra annoying part is that Apple's total lack of reputability is starting to spread to competing products Oh, please. Apple has nothing to do with that problem. The problem is we're a throw away society hell bent on buying the latest greatest thing. If it's anyone's fault, it's our own.

Well, I didn't mean "this is Apple's fault" as much as "serviceability problems traditionally associated with Apple devices are now common industry wide" - and are now hard to avoid even if you look at other brands, as the person I was replying to said they would. I do understand that, ultimately, companies are just delivering what most consumers want.

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#276

Post by lobster_johnson »

largote wrote: post #195
Skunkleton wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was there because you need apps to bootstrap a platform and attract enough users to attract developers. But you can't really expect a consumer electronics company to have the best application for a given niche once the niche has been identified and attracted companies that really want to make it their bread-and-butter. I have a hard time with this. Apple products tend to lock you into apple software. If you want…

Clicking on an address defaults to fucking Apple Maps... Let me say that again: Apple Maps ...

Apple Maps' reputation is much worse than it deserves. These days it is better than Google Maps, in my opinion: Better map pins, better graphical performance, better rendering style, better search.

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#277

Post by chrisblackwell »

OSX fan here: Everyone is completely misunderstanding our recent criticisms of Apple software.

We don't hate Apple software!

We have seen a steady decline over the last few years, and so we are expressing our concerns. This does not translate to us hating the software. We know what Apple can do when it really focuses on the quality of it's software (see OSX Snow Leopard).

I still think OSX is more stable and useable then any other OS out there. Yes there are annoyances, but they are trying to move the ball forward. The only piece I would agree has gone completely off the rails is iTunes.

OSX is still strong, and I believe Apple will right the ship. After all, Apple employees use Mac's themselves to build iOS.

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#278

Post by cowholio4 »

Sure, we have dumb apps on our iPhone that we don't use and some of the preinstalled applications on OSX aren't that great.

But bashing Preview and touting the alternative Adobe Acrobat Reader!? Are you serious? Firstly, they are different products. Preview handles multiple file formats and Adobe Reader is meant for PDFs. Secondly, Preview allows you to edit, combine and covert pdfs all of which you would have to pay Adobe to unlock these features.

Preview is such an amazing tool and I would go as far and say it's one of OS X's killer applications.

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#279

Post by roymurdock »

samastur wrote: post #253
roymurdock wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From my perspective, their application software has always sucked. I think the main problem is not the application software (aside from iTunes and Apple Maps) - the main problem is the OS level software. During the "golden age" of apple, apps would just work. Didn't matter if it you were using Apple-provided software or "better" 3rd party stuff - crashing, lagging, stuttering was minimal. Now, many users are seeing…

When was this golden age? I've been a Mac user for about 10 years and it was never better than now, probably the opposite. Every edition had bunch of bugs I hated. Before then I regularly tested Mac for local computer magazine and it didn't look better either. I even managed to freeze Mac OSX 10.1 with first mouse click when it arrived in our lab. Before then we had lots of fun looking at ways you could hang by that…

My experience with the MBP + iPod Touch/iPhone since 2009. Using apps like iTunes, Final Cut Pro, iMovie, Garage Band, and Logic Pro.

So the golden age for me has been 2009-2015 from Snow Leopard -> Mountain Lion (trailing off steeply w/ El Capitan) and from iOS 1 - 7, w/ iOS 8, 9 introducing issues.

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#280

Post by Reedx »

midnitewarrior wrote: post #96
paxtonab wrote: post #18

...[Mossberg] fingered iTunes for the desktop "I dread opening the thing" This is so spot on. It feels like they rearrange iTunes every month, especially the mobile version. Recently I noticed that I'd be searching for a song (that I have on my phone) and it would default to their streaming service.... Why would I want to use my data to stream a song that I already have on my phone?

If Steve were alive, people would be getting fired after comments from Walt such as these.

I'm not sure about that... iTunes has always been awful.
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