Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#141

Post by AlexandrB » Mon, Feb 08, 2016, 10:54 PM UTC

jszymborski wrote: post #15

And so the pendulum swings, as it always does. Apple will begin sitting on it's laurels while core services and products degrade, while Microsoft enters a quiet, user-first renaissance under new leadership. If you switch Apple and Microsoft in the above paragraph, it sounds a lot like the past...

> while Microsoft enters a quiet, user-first renaissance under new leadership

I'm not holding my breath. A lot of decisions around Windows 10 have been, in my opinion, user hostile. If Apple drops the ball, the most likely outcome is that we return to the bad old days where there's Windows - it's ugly and it sucks but everyone know how to use it - and nothing a whole lot better.

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#142

Post by tenpoundhammer » Mon, Feb 08, 2016, 10:54 PM UTC

I wonder if this is related to a problem hiring engineers, Apple seems to be in a full on war to employee software developers in silicon valley. They are competing with hot startups, self employment, and variety of other concerns.

Many of the issues that I'm hearing about Apples software quality appear to be caused by a company who is trying to do too much with too few engineering resources. They are getting stretched thin and having to make more quality sacrifices than their customers are willing to tolerate.

I bet that if they opened an additional engineering office in a less contentious area of the united states they would be able to staff teams more easily, with longer average tenures, and tap into the talent pool and skills that they are currently unable to hire at the volumes they require.

I would suggest Portland, Oregon as I'm a native Oregonian, and because we have some of the best software engineers in the world!

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#143

Post by toomuchtodo » Mon, Feb 08, 2016, 10:54 PM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #138

Someone1234 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (comes out to be ~$60/month) Even phased like that that is a lot of money.

Is it? As a software engineer, I leverage those $60/month into $8000+/month. I think that's more than worth it. Why the hell haven't I bought a backup machine yet just in case this one breaks?

> I think that's more than worth it. Why the hell haven't I bought a backup machine yet just in case this one breaks?

Because you're leveraging credit in the event of a failure! No need to let equipment languish when you can simply pop into the store!

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#144

Post by delecti » Mon, Feb 08, 2016, 10:54 PM UTC

pekk wrote: post #70

mmastrac wrote: post #3

It's not just software. While I'm still a fan of Macbooks, I'm getting close to abandoning ship thanks to the increasingly un-repairability of these things. I have a Macbook from ~2008 that's still functional as a media PC thanks to memory/SSD upgrades and battery replacements over the years. My current Macbook Pro has memory soldered on to the motherboard and a battery glued to the case. The SSD is technically repla…

This lack of repairability is actually not a recent thing at all. For example, I worked a support job in the late 90s where a high proportion of Applecare complaints were resolved with "replace the motherboard." With PCs we just replaced the offending part, which was rarely the motherboard. The worst part of this is that Apple's success has dragged the rest of the market toward things like non-replaceable batteries.

> The worst part of this is that Apple's success has dragged the rest of the market toward things like non-replaceable batteries

I think that statement is only half right. Apple may have pioneered the move towards non-replaceable batteries, but I think it's only a symptom of increasingly integrated and small devices. If an inch thick device is thicker by 1mm because the battery is easily detachable, that's much less of an issue than on a 10mm laptop.

They may have done it in an egregious way first (gluing/soldering in components), but we probably would have gotten there before long anyway.

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#145

Post by tasdev » Mon, Feb 08, 2016, 10:55 PM UTC

I had a debate about this the other day with a friend. I am firmly of the belief the quality is bordering on poor and that if this was a decade ago, the Apple fanboys would be all over Microsoft for the same performance - remember the taunts about Windows performance and crashing from the Switch campaign?

I'm sick of constant random iOS reboots, out of date OpenGL, poor/reduced quality apps (Photos I'm looking at you), the growing monolithic nature of iTunes and the fact I feel like I'm running Windows ME all over again.

I wish they'd stop spending so much time on marketing new features -- who cares, really -- and spend a few years making stuff great.

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#146

Post by slantyyz » Mon, Feb 08, 2016, 10:55 PM UTC

skorecky wrote: post #16

mmastrac wrote: post #3

It's not just software. While I'm still a fan of Macbooks, I'm getting close to abandoning ship thanks to the increasingly un-repairability of these things. I have a Macbook from ~2008 that's still functional as a media PC thanks to memory/SSD upgrades and battery replacements over the years. My current Macbook Pro has memory soldered on to the motherboard and a battery glued to the case. The SSD is technically repla…

It does suck the repairability is next to none but they have the best looking hardware out there. I have yet to see any other manufacture come close to what Apple can do hardware wise. A metal laptop enclosure is basically unheard of outside of Apple sadly. I would like to see someone step up.

I would say that some of the recent Dell, Microsoft, Asus and Razer designs are pretty nice, and there are plenty of metal laptop enclosures out there if you look.

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#147

Post by wtallis » Mon, Feb 08, 2016, 10:55 PM UTC

api wrote: post #76

stestagg wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found that wifi is buggy generally with lower end APs. It may be Apple employees generally have a better class of router/wifi

Recent Macs have a wifi chip that requires WME/WMM extensions (Wireless Multimedia) in most cases. For most APs it will have issues if these are switched off. Rumor is it's a chipset thing not a software thing.

Got any more information on that? I usually leave WMM off on account of it being extra complexity that doesn't seem to make anything work better, and I haven't noticed any particular issues with my six month old rMBP. Which chipsets are supposedly afflicted?

(side note: I wish they'd never stopped using Atheros WiFi.)

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#148

Post by ixtli » Mon, Feb 08, 2016, 10:55 PM UTC

mmastrac wrote: post #3

It's not just software. While I'm still a fan of Macbooks, I'm getting close to abandoning ship thanks to the increasingly un-repairability of these things. I have a Macbook from ~2008 that's still functional as a media PC thanks to memory/SSD upgrades and battery replacements over the years. My current Macbook Pro has memory soldered on to the motherboard and a battery glued to the case. The SSD is technically repla…

I feel as though this is comparing two different orders of magnitude. Apple users are, in general, getting upset about software user experience. A subset of users have always been upset about repairability of apple hardware, though admittedly it's gotten worse with its laptops in the past years. The subset that wants to do what we want to do with our hardware here is much smaller and thus not who Apple is trying to sell to. In the end, the users buying macbooks want lighter, thinner machines and are willing to sacrifice basically anything to get it. Personally I've given up laptops because I'm not willing to make this tradeoff, even with "pc" hardware.

Edit: There are even some people in this thread, who I assume are "power users," that are willing to sacrifice previously sacrosanct things like ethernet ports for mobility. Personally I'm not willing to do so but I also don't have a pressing need for a laptop.

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#149

Post by ixtli » Mon, Feb 08, 2016, 10:55 PM UTC

mmastrac wrote: post #3

It's not just software. While I'm still a fan of Macbooks, I'm getting close to abandoning ship thanks to the increasingly un-repairability of these things. I have a Macbook from ~2008 that's still functional as a media PC thanks to memory/SSD upgrades and battery replacements over the years. My current Macbook Pro has memory soldered on to the motherboard and a battery glued to the case. The SSD is technically repla…

I feel as though this is comparing two different orders of magnitude. Apple users are, in general, getting upset about software user experience. A subset of users have always been upset about repairability of apple hardware, though admittedly it's gotten worse with its laptops in the past years. The subset that wants to do what we want to do with our hardware here is much smaller and thus not who Apple is trying to sell to. In the end, the users buying macbooks want lighter, thinner machines and are willing to sacrifice basically anything to get it. Personally I've given up laptops because I'm not willing to make this tradeoff, even with "pc" hardware.

Re: Apple fans are coming to hate Apple software

#150

Post by Swizec » Mon, Feb 08, 2016, 10:55 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #143

Swizec wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? As a software engineer, I leverage those $60/month into $8000+/month. I think that's more than worth it. Why the hell haven't I bought a backup machine yet just in case this one breaks?

> I think that's more than worth it. Why the hell haven't I bought a backup machine yet just in case this one breaks? Because you're leveraging credit in the event of a failure! No need to let equipment languish when you can simply pop into the store!

Hehe, that's why I don't have a replacement machine yet.

Also because it has so far only died about once every two years. Every time due to human error (spilled things). I can afford a two day outage every two years :)