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Why do Chinese websites look so busy?

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Re: Why do Chinese websites look so busy?

#41

Post by LiweiZ »

mikeash wrote: post #33
fengwick3 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting points, but minor correction here. Typing Chinese efficiently has to do with the input method. Using pinyin as you suggest is actually hopelessly slow as you would have to first recall the precise pronunciation of the word (the -n vs -ng for example), type the pinyin, then scroll through the (normally) massive list of words. Of course, things like fuzzy pinyin and context aware suggestions help, but adopt…

I've never seen a Chinese person using handwriting input, even though it's widely available on smartphones. They all use pinyin input because it's easiest and fastest.

Handwriting is widely used by 50+ yo people in China. The pinyin system was not taught when they were young.

Re: Why do Chinese websites look so busy?

#42

Post by mikekchar »

fengwick3 wrote: post #25
hunvreus wrote: post #22

I doubt the author has a first hand experience with the Chinese market: - Typing Chinese with a keyboard isn't hard... at all. Pinyin input is about as straightforward and fast as typing in English. - Internet in China isn't slow. That is as long as you're visiting sites that are hosted in China, which most people in China do. I used to be surprised actually at how good video streaming was when I first arrived in Chi…

Interesting points, but minor correction here. Typing Chinese efficiently has to do with the input method. Using pinyin as you suggest is actually hopelessly slow as you would have to first recall the precise pronunciation of the word (the -n vs -ng for example), type the pinyin, then scroll through the (normally) massive list of words. Of course, things like fuzzy pinyin and context aware suggestions help, but adopt…

I could imagine skip[0] being quite efficient. I doubt any native speaker would use it, though. I have used multiple radical lookup systems before, and they are not in any way efficient. I don't speak Chinese, but I do a fair bit of writing in Japanese and phonetic input is very, very quick (especially with context sensitive completion).

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodansha_Kanji_Learner%27s_Dic...

Re: Why do Chinese websites look so busy?

#43

Post by userbinator »

One point that doesn't seem to have been brought up is that Asian cultures are "high context" while Western ones are "low context"; see this article for a detailed explanation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-_and_low-context_cultures

A rough summarisation could be that Asians are quite information-hungry, whereas Westerners are more information-averse.

Re: Why do Chinese websites look so busy?

#44

Post by mkristian »

fengwick3 wrote: post #25
hunvreus wrote: post #22

I doubt the author has a first hand experience with the Chinese market: - Typing Chinese with a keyboard isn't hard... at all. Pinyin input is about as straightforward and fast as typing in English. - Internet in China isn't slow. That is as long as you're visiting sites that are hosted in China, which most people in China do. I used to be surprised actually at how good video streaming was when I first arrived in Chi…

Interesting points, but minor correction here. Typing Chinese efficiently has to do with the input method. Using pinyin as you suggest is actually hopelessly slow as you would have to first recall the precise pronunciation of the word (the -n vs -ng for example), type the pinyin, then scroll through the (normally) massive list of words. Of course, things like fuzzy pinyin and context aware suggestions help, but adopt…

> first recall the precise pronunciation of the word (the -n vs -ng for example)

I am a foreigner living in China and this was never an issue for me, so I doubt the native people here find that a problem.

I rarely see any Chinese people use the handwriting character recognition on their phones. I use it sometimes just for practice, but just writing pinyin is much faster.

Re: Why do Chinese websites look so busy?

#45

Post by LiweiZ »

Many principles in visual design are not followed very well in China. There is little room for those possibilities derived from the principles to be discussed here. So so-called culture or related things are not excuses for them.

One force that drives the differences between western way and current Chinese way is the degree of diversity in the internet business world. In China, one-stop-shop is the mainstream mind among participants. App style is not the leading force there. This is only a hint.

Sorry to just mention some unclear points. I'm quite busy on other things atm. Just my 2 cents.

[edit]: my terrible grammar

Re: Why do Chinese websites look so busy?

#46

Post by mkristian »

LiweiZ wrote: post #41
mikeash wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen a Chinese person using handwriting input, even though it's widely available on smartphones. They all use pinyin input because it's easiest and fastest.

Handwriting is widely used by 50+ yo people in China. The pinyin system was not taught when they were young.

I can confirm. My girlfriends father needed a new phone and he needed a phone with character recognition.

I dont recall seeing any of my friends or colleagues here using this feature.

Re: Why do Chinese websites look so busy?

#47

Post by mkristian »

Frqy3 wrote: post #28
fengwick3 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting points, but minor correction here. Typing Chinese efficiently has to do with the input method. Using pinyin as you suggest is actually hopelessly slow as you would have to first recall the precise pronunciation of the word (the -n vs -ng for example), type the pinyin, then scroll through the (normally) massive list of words. Of course, things like fuzzy pinyin and context aware suggestions help, but adopt…

From what I've seen, it is mostly Southerners (南方人) or Western people taught by Southerners who have trouble with distinguishing between endings such as -n and -ng. Also, pinyin IMEs can be fairly fast even with only minimal practice as the matching is done at the word level (and possibly some IMEs look at preceeding characters) rather than at the character level. For example, when entering 南方人, my tying sequence was…

"nfr" gives me "南方人"

Re: Why do Chinese websites look so busy?

#48

Post by rabboRubble »

Take any book that is published in English and Japanese or Chinese and you will note that the book is about 1/3rd the size of the English original. Those languages are denser than English or any European language for that matter.

Native readers of those languages are accustomed to seeing more information in a page space. So design follows their tolerance.

Re: Why do Chinese websites look so busy?

#49

Post by girzel »

andrezsanchez wrote: post #36
fengwick3 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting points, but minor correction here. Typing Chinese efficiently has to do with the input method. Using pinyin as you suggest is actually hopelessly slow as you would have to first recall the precise pronunciation of the word (the -n vs -ng for example), type the pinyin, then scroll through the (normally) massive list of words. Of course, things like fuzzy pinyin and context aware suggestions help, but adopt…

> "Using pinyin as you suggest is actually hopelessly slow" Everyone I've encountered in China seems to do it just fine. It is only hopelessly slow if you type one character at a time. > "adopting an input method based on the character radical composition or handwriting recognition is much faster" What character radical input method are you talking about? I can't imagine any input method using radical composition bei…

The wubi input method (五笔字形) uses radical composition or something like it -- keys represent different (semi-arbitrary) character portions, and you "build" characters by choosing the portions, and adding other keys that indicate the overall shape of the character. You can get nearly any character out there in four keys, usually much less, and it also does phrase input. It's much harder to learn, obviously, but a practiced wubi typist is supposed to be able to go faster than pinyin.

Over the years I've tried to teach myself, and I can sort of do it, but I never got fast enough to really switch away from pinyin.

Re: Why do Chinese websites look so busy?

#50

Post by shalmanese »

gozur88 wrote: post #31

I asked the same question of a Japanese web developer friend a decade ago, since Japanese sites (at least, back then) were very similar. The answer he gave made sense. He said the reason Japanese websites were so busy was the greater percentage of mobile-only customers, many of whom weren't using smartphones. You could go to a website on your cheap "feature phone" and still comfortably navigate a site that was mostly…

Smartphone penetration is up to 73% by now: http://www.nielsen.com/cn/en/press-room/2015/Nielsen-Chinese... and is above 85% in urban areas.

The article seems to take an American bias with this by looking only at desktop websites. China primarily consumes the internet through mobile apps and top tier mobile apps (Wechat, Baidu Maps, Didi Kuadi, Dianping, Ele.me) appear to be designed no more or less busy than comparable Western ones.

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