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GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

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Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#271
post #110

> While their efforts are admirable it is very hard to even interview people who are 'white' which makes things challenging How is this even legal? Change 'white' for any other race, and you'd have yourself a workplace discrimination lawsuit.

Well tumblerinas says you can't be racist against white because patriarchy. /s No really, just read reddit.com/r/tumblrinaction and realize wtf people are saying these days shielding behind (false)feminist propaganda and some very confused idea of oppression.

> No really, just read reddit.com/r/tumblrinaction

Before reading that subreddit, one should probably be aware of Poe's law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't see what the big deal is. The slide refers to spearheading a diversity program, not the company itself. Seems intuitive to me that such a program with only white, male managers might be problematic.

Your use of "only" is undeservedly generous of the attitude reflected on that slide. Furthermore, the slide actually doesn't even really address gender as a reason to disqualify someone, just race. They aren't talking about having a diverse group of people, including white males and females, leading diversity. Instead that slide near as I can tell communicates a policy of excluding white people. Furthermore, I don't…

What about experience? If nothing else (and there is else), it's reasonable to think that someone from a group which has been discriminated against may have more insight about battling systemic discrimination and racism (i.e. diversity hiring) than someone from a more privileged background (privileged in the sense of being from a majority group which was not the subject of systemic discrimination). Note that, like for any other hire, this type of personal experience is only one element involved in selecting the best fit for a role. I shouldn't have to say that last bit, but people like to think in black-and-white (pun intended) about race, sex, and class.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a young white male with no money, no job and bad health. Can I please have some of this mysterious magic power I am supposed to have?

Do you have an arrest record? If not: there's the magic power. Statistically speaking, a poor young black male is much more likely to have an arrest record than a poor young white male. Edit: holy batman the downvotes. I never considered the possibility that maybe #hnwatch is right.

And what if he does have an arrest record? Got any other stats instead to conclusively demonstrate his undeniable white magic? Where does a black person with no arrest record fit on your magic powers scale?

Oh, never mind, I forgot for a second you're addressing something/someone specific with generalisations that are meaningless to him and have nothing to do with his life or status.

Your argument is piss poor; that's why you were downvoted (not by me). Congrats on your successful upvote fishing, by implying/imagining some kind of HN conspiracy/agenda/hive mind.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#274
post #15

> "We’re trying to build a new kind of enterprise company where the playbooks of old won’t always work" By replacing flat meritocracy and remote work with traditional top-down management? > "don't think we'll succeed teaching white, male middle managers empathy and compassion anytime soon, so let's limit their scope of damage" So the technical director and member of the social-impact team is a blatant racist.

Man, I feel sorry for anyone who actually buys into the "flat meritocracy" myth.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#275

I love how the guy quoted saying that they can't teach white, male middle managers empathy is a white male middle manager. I guess he's saying that he's proud of what he is.

He could be a Latino, profile says he is from Puerto Rico.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#276

She certainly doesn't say "only white" and she explicitly excludes white women ("some of the biggest barriers to progress"). You can make convoluted excuses for her, but it's obvious that she sees white people (of whatever gender or socioeconomic status) as essentially enemies, and doesn't want them as allies (let alone is willing to accept some of them as people with different, but valid opinions). It's not acceptab…

There is a subtle irony in your comment. I think it is interesting to tease out because much of the arguments on diversity come from one's own perspective. So, if you'll indulge me, your argument is essentially 'us vs them' is a bad thing. About right? If so, I agree. We're not going to solve an exclusionary tech culture by excluding people or creating two sides to a debating war. But what strikes me is that your com…

I'm happy to indulge, although HN is not the most convenient forum for long discussions.

The reason that I didn't, and don't, want to make this about Nicole Sanchez is that, unfortunately, I don't think that she is unique in holding these views, or acting on them within a mainstream company. In fact, the original comment in this thread quotes an even more explicit statement by someone else in Github (about how you can't "teach empathy to white male middle managers). There is also the matter of the "open code of conduct", subscribed to by Github among others (apparently not so open, since they refused to change it) which up and says that "we will not act on complaints of reverse racism", which rather clearly means racism against white people.

So yes, avoiding mentioning Nicole Sanchez was intentional in the sense that I am not interested in arguing ad hominem. Her name and person don't hold any particular significance for the discussion or for me personally, and I hope that you are mature enough not to retort "well, that's because she is not a white male". I am absolutely certain down to the inner core of my soul that I wouldn't care to weave her name into my comments if it was "Dwight Higginbotham".

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#277
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if you even need to see the whole presentation. A few of the full sentences on that one slide are more than enough to project a strong us vs them attitude of hatred and victim versus oppressor, especially the following bullets: - "This is not work for white folks to lead" - "Some of the biggest barriers to progress are white women" - "we need solidarity with our Asian friends and colleagues" This is blat…

- "This is not work for white folks to lead" Well, it's not. It's kind of missing the point if your diversity initiative is being run by white people. - "Some of the biggest barriers to progress are white women" Second wave feminism, largely led by white women, often leaves out women of color. I mentioned this below, but the publishing industry is 79% white and 78% female. This has a huge impact on the types of stori…

> - "This is not work for white folks to lead"

> Well, it's not. It's kind of missing the point if your diversity initiative is being run by white people.

On the one hand, sure, it would be odd if it were entirely led by a group of people that the initiative is not meant to directly benefit.

But on the other,

1. The title implies it is white people that must be left out of leadership there. It does not mention Asian people, which is odd, as the tech industry is currently mostly white and Asian men. Asian people are highly overrepresented, much more than white people, relative to their percentage in the country. That means if you have objections to putting a white person in a leadership position for a diversity initiative, you should have a similar objection to an Asian person. Not having that mentioned can't help but seem racist against white people.

2. Diversity initiatives need to work with everyone, not just the newcomers, but also the existing tech industry, which is mostly white and Asian men. White and Asian men could be helpful in guiding the industry towards more diversity, in particular, by doing so in a way that gets as many other white and Asian men on board with such changes. They might know best what would work to convince them, for example.

3. And, in the end, it is just always wrong to say "this is not work for [race X]". That's racist and offensive. Instead, it would have been fine to say "this is work where we need a strong leadership presence of currently underrepresented groups".

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#278

Serious question: why can't someone make a good Github replacement that is anywhere near feature parity? I've tried both Bitbucket and GitLab, but their UIs continue to be leagues behind Github. It takes twice as long to do something in them (ex. find and blame a file) than it does with Github. If they could just get the UI right, I'd migrate in a second. Hosting providers should enforce political opinions (beyond de…

> Serious question: why can't someone make a good Github replacement that is anywhere near feature parity? Time and Github executed well at the start giving them experience. I get the feeling that a company starting out now and doing all of their development and management remotely through the site they are building might have a good chance at catching Github in capability. Getting buy-in from customers is the proble…

I think something like gitlab + diaspora might actually have a chance of gaining some mindshare... at least the intent of diaspora, not the execution.

Maybe using something like keybase as an orchestration layer for gitlab either central and/or decentralized?

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#279
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That categorization ("blatant racist") will sadly tend to produce an endless argument over who can and can't be racist. That's fruitless. More accurately, that statement is both anti-white and misandrist, almost by definition, by equating white plus male with damage.

> an endless argument over who can and can't be racist It blows my mind that some people really believe that only white people can be racist. It's like they completely redefined the meaning of the word "racist".

Redefining common words makes your ideology impossible to discuss with outsiders.

That makes your followers who have adopted the new definitions fairly immune to persuasion. Some cults work like this. I've never seen it done by anyone with a defendable agenda.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>It's kind of missing the point if your diversity initiative is being run by white people. How can anybody who advocates equality say no white person can lead a diversity movement? Just because somebody is white doesn't mean they aren't an oppressed minority (female, transgender, Jewish or some other oppressed group like a furry). I think we collectively need to declare it's not okay to say "people with skin color _…

Who is saying they can't have an opinion?

To be prevented from participating in a process is to be prevented from having a meaningful opinion about that process.
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