Tableau stock down almost 50% • Hacker News Board

Re: Tableau stock down almost 50%

#201

Post by greggyb » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 11:35 PM UTC

TheLogothete wrote: post #175

greggyb wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Power BI, Microsoft's answer to it is $10/mo - yes, not $50/year, but a lot closer to that than to $1,000. The vis layer doesn't need to be expensive.

PowerBI has nowhere near the capabilities of Tableau. On top of that, PowerBI is subsidized in order to funnel customers for SQL Server.

Tableau is sitting on top of a data warehouse anyway. $company will be shelling out much more on the data warehousing and ETL side than on the vis layer.

Even with open source tooling, it's a large and ongoing development effort to do BI right.

Re: Tableau stock down almost 50%

#202

Post by njx » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 11:41 PM UTC

brooklyndude wrote: post #98

I can hack d3js. Can crunch billions of records in a flash of the eye, can wrangle most any DB (NoSQL, et al) out there, why would I need Tableau? Answer: We want someone stable! Not some crazy hacker. Plus if we don't spend the cash, we don't have it in our budget next year. Oh, I get it now. :-)

Actually the analytics is the missing part in d3 and charting libraries. http://www.infocaptor.com/dashboard/charting-engines-vs-anal...

Re: Tableau stock down almost 50%

#203

Post by latj » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 12:02 AM UTC

hueving wrote: post #188

vadym909 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'what it means in terms of stock' Exactly- The problems (big price drop) arise only when the stock price is at unreasonably high levels based on unreasonable growth assumptions by Wall Street. So the same people that cause it go 'bubble' then cause it to go 'burst' wreaking all kinds of collateral damage (employee stock options, morale, etc).

Wall Street isn't responsible for the bubble. It's the company leadership misrepresenting the company's road map. A stock won't become overpriced if the CEO blatantly says that sales will probably only go up 5% this year.

Telsa appears to have been overpriced for quite some time. The stock kept rising based on emotional reactions to videos of falcon doors, robot recharging arm, hypertube test tracks, and reusable space craft landing. If Elon Musk can make all that stuff happen surely he'll find a way to drive the stock up to $500? But even Musk was saying the stock was overpriced. And now it is correcting.

Re: Tableau stock down almost 50%

#204

Post by this_user » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 12:18 AM UTC

chollida1 wrote: post #50

Though the outcome is a bit worse than I think most predicted, this has been telegraphed since about November of last year. Tableau has had a very high short interest ratio for sometime, everyone was expecting poor results. What really exacerbated their issue was that they didn't get out in front of this and let people know how bad they were going to miss. So when they released earnings everything went to shit on the…

LinkedIn got crushed today in a very similar fashion on weak earnings. So, it's not just Tableau. In fact, the whole tech sector is starting to show some weakness which can be seen from the NASDAQ's recent performance. A lot of last year's tech-related IPOs have also performed terribly (e.g. Etsy, Box, Match, First Data, Square). Especially recently a lot of the previous momentum darlings like Apple, Amazon and Netflix have started rolling over, too. Facebook and Google were holding much better after strong earnings, but even those are starting to show signs of weakness now. Seems like we might be at the end of the phase of explosive growth over the last couple of years.

Re: Tableau stock down almost 50%

#205

Post by fidget » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 12:19 AM UTC

yeukhon wrote: post #182

warfangle wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having to program against its APIs recently: 1. No ability to use a 3rd party auth provider AFAIK, which means either keeping tableau passwords in a database or having users remember two different passwords 2. Embedded views use synchronous requests, which can easily hang the browser. Synchronous XMLHttpRequest has been deprecated for a while . I think I even saw a version of dojo from 2005 being loaded. 3. Reports a…

> 1. No ability to use a 3rd party auth provider AFAIK, which means either keeping tableau passwords in a database or having users remember two different passwords The answer is SAML/ADFS. You should look to enable this integration. If you are not using AD/LDAP, that's a whole different story. But SAML/ADFS is pretty much the standard way since Tableau is a Windows service, it is very natural to just use AD/LDAP/SAML…

OpenID in 9.2 also

Re: Tableau stock down almost 50%

#206

Post by chrischen » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 12:52 AM UTC

tyre wrote: post #176

physcab wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price is expensive but if I'm charging $100 - $150 / hr and it takes me twice as long to do something in PowerBI that it does in Tableau, Tableau quickly pays for itself for the desktop software. Then you can multiply that across a team of experienced BI professionals and even the product team because they can easily view workbooks and give feedback. That would easily outweigh the costs of Tableau Server.

Looking at their pricing ($500/user/year) seems pretty reasonable for such a high-impact role. If you're at a company, the question is if it saves you ~5 hours in a year.

Pricing isn't dependent on how much it helps you, but on how much more than competitors and alternatives. Otherwise food would cost an arm and a leg.

Re: Tableau stock down almost 50%

#207

Post by greggyb » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 12:52 AM UTC

WhitneyLand wrote: post #193

TheLogothete wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PowerBI has nowhere near the capabilities of Tableau. On top of that, PowerBI is subsidized in order to funnel customers for SQL Server.

What's are some of the biggest things missing in Power BI compared to Tableau?

Tableau offers a richer end-user customization interface. Power BI offers custom visuals, but these are definitely developer-only at this point. The behavior you get from the baked in pieces is more rigidly defined than that from Tableau (monthly releases address these things one item at a time).

Out of the box mapping is miles better in Tableau.

Overall Tableau is more fully-featured than Power BI. Tableau aims to be a complete BI presentation layer. Power BI is positioned as the self-service and personalized consumption component as a part of a larger BI presentation layer. Microsoft would prefer that the entirety of the BI stack be made up of their technologies, but Power BI can consume other data sources, and its reports can be embedded in other apps, so it fits into other technologies as well.

We could go feature-by-feature and Tableau would win the majority of presentation sophistication bullets (more fine-grained control of display, filtering, interactions - richer collection of built-in visualizations).

The differentiator for Power BI is more on the self-service end. Personalized dashboards (dashboard and report are two distinct concepts in Power BI) can be trivially created from published reports. Customized reports can easily be extended from published reports and datasets. There's a strong collaboration framework based on Office 365 groups and with lessons learned from SharePoint. There is also a pretty seamless upgrade path. Power Pivot models can currently be promoted to SSAS, and the expectation is for the same to be possible with Power BI models (all the same backing database technology).

I hate to be so vague, but there's a lot to both products. I'd be happy to dive deeper into some specific cases if you've got questions.

Re: Tableau stock down almost 50%

#208

Post by itslennysfault » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 12:55 AM UTC

pinaceae wrote: post #5

huge corrections under way, guarantee this is not the end, just the beginning. unicorn slaughter. upside: expect house prices in the SF bay area to become more affordable.

...but Tableau is in Seattle.

Re: Tableau stock down almost 50%

#209

Post by chris_wot » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 1:02 AM UTC

babo wrote: post #160

physcab wrote: post #90

Tableau is a good product. I use it daily. There simply is no better alternative for quick ad-hoc, enterprise-level, intuitive graph and dashboard making. I've been at large orgs where we evaluated all the cloud services like Mixpanel and the ilk, but they are very different use cases. Tableau + Redshift (or Vertica but Redshift is way less expensive) is the typical BI tech stack. When I go a client or a new job and…

Tableau is a great product but with a high price stigma. I really like it, when clients asking for recommendation my first answer is Tableau. They like the product and the features but the reaction is always the same: nice, but it's too expensive for us, we'll go with PowerBI. Competing with Microsoft is a tough game.

It's not PowerBI they are competing with. It's Qlikview. Their biggest issue is that Qlikview is viral: you can use the evaluation version ("personal edition") for as long as you want, but it has restrictions. With Tableau, you get a 15 day trial. Consequently, it gets used in businesses for small data projects, gets seen to be really effective, then the business realises it's effective and buys licenses.

Tableau isn't SAP, it just isn't. If they want to really get into businesses, then they need to be sensible and give people the opportunity to use it and then get it into the businesses they work in.

For instance, I used Tableau to learn it for the 15 days they gave me, and I learned quite a lot as they have great documentation, but then after the 15 days I got no more opportunities to go through their tutorials. Partially I got busy on other things and wanted to revisit it after a few days, but I also setup SQL Server SSAS which took me a bit of time. I got a maximum of about 5 days usage, after that there's no point having it on my workstation as it's far too expensive for me to justify buying a copy.

If I could have had more time with the product, I guess I'd know how good it is so I can recommend it to the business I work at. Unfortunately, I can't without cracking their trial limit code, which I'm just not prepared to do. For now, I guess I'll be recommending Qlikview which is a known quantity and very good also, though nowhere near as intuitive.

Re: Tableau stock down almost 50%

#210

Post by chris_wot » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 1:05 AM UTC

shad0wc0dex wrote: post #187

babo wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tableau is a great product but with a high price stigma. I really like it, when clients asking for recommendation my first answer is Tableau. They like the product and the features but the reaction is always the same: nice, but it's too expensive for us, we'll go with PowerBI. Competing with Microsoft is a tough game.

I am stuck with SAP Business Objects (Crystal Reports) at my company. It is ok, but the features of Tableau look like they blow it out of the water. I've tried to get discovery projects started up to look at other options for due diligence. However no one seems to go for it. Oh well :/

SAP have been gutting Business Objects for some time now. I know someone who is fanatical about Business Objects Universe Designer, but they tried to use the later version and they found that a lot of features were stripped away, so she went back to the older version and refuses to upgrade until she's certain the new versions are on par with the old one.