A house that costs $20k • Hacker News Board

Re: A house that costs $20k

#201

Post by OrwellianChild » Thu, Feb 04, 2016, 11:23 PM UTC

okc wrote: post #196

tempestn wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think people who own a house should be allowed to buy a 2nd one and push first time buyers out the market? Just to address this, first, yes , I absolutely think people need to be able to buy a second house. There is also a natural impediment in place of investors buying up "too many" houses. The reason is, if there are more houses on the rental market than there is demand for rentals, it will drive rental ra…

I generally follow the logic. Though, if salaries are not enough to support a mortgage application this model will trap people in a renting cycle. A precarious one at that. The interesting part in the model you present is the use of investment portfolios to get on the housing ladder. Its as if working hard isn't enough, you need some extra device, with a degree of risk and luck to make the leap to home ownership. Its…

@okc: Been following this conversation, and I really appreciate the honest exchange of ideas and viewpoints...

Regarding your ideas:

Rental cap indexed to minimum wage: Unfortunately, in the US, this would mean no rental properties in most of the developed cities in the country. We can't control what people earn, and price of building housing is not directly connected to what individuals make.

First time buyers get preference: As explained above, this is manged in various ways (again, in the States) by first-time homeowner loans that have reduced down payments and by tax credits for first-time owners, among other ways. (Good news, in other words!)

Easier buying/selling process: This is essentially a complaint about contract law/language, which has merit, but is a much broader problem/challenge. Still, parts of the States are getting better systems. Try using Redfin.com to look for housing in one of the states it is available for (try Seattle, Washington for example).

Tenant Rights: These are stronger or weaker in different parts of the States, but check out the Tenants' Union of Washington State for an example. Don't forget, however, to protect the rights of a landlord against deadbeat tenants who can occasionally refuse to pay rent, damage the property, or disrupt neighbors.

Landlord references: Love the idea - would need the support of communities, and a rental climate where landlords need to compete (e.g. probably not San Francisco, Seattle, or other boom towns).

Re: A house that costs $20k

#202

Post by ci5er » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 12:19 AM UTC

zanny wrote: post #194

strgrd wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where can I buy one though?

At least in the US, zoning and construction ordinances are incredible barriers to innovation and are part of the reason why the real estate market is out of control. These were systems put in place decades ago, often due to class warfare to keep the "riff-raff" out of desirable neighborhoods, that punish innovation and progress towards sustainable and affordable housing. I cannot help but feel like a lot of the probl…

That sounds as if it that would have insufficient opportunities for graft.

Re: A house that costs $20k

#203

Post by byw » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 1:33 AM UTC

zanny wrote: post #194

strgrd wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where can I buy one though?

At least in the US, zoning and construction ordinances are incredible barriers to innovation and are part of the reason why the real estate market is out of control. These were systems put in place decades ago, often due to class warfare to keep the "riff-raff" out of desirable neighborhoods, that punish innovation and progress towards sustainable and affordable housing. I cannot help but feel like a lot of the probl…

I wonder if this is a North American thing. I noticed in Sweden and the Netherlands the newly-built houses tend to have a more "solid feel" and sensible arrangements. Though I can't speak for their structural integrity since I'm no expert. They also seems to be less attached to faux-period styles and more readily embrace contemporary designs.

Re: A house that costs $20k

#204

Post by zanny » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 2:03 AM UTC

byw wrote: post #203

zanny wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the US, zoning and construction ordinances are incredible barriers to innovation and are part of the reason why the real estate market is out of control. These were systems put in place decades ago, often due to class warfare to keep the "riff-raff" out of desirable neighborhoods, that punish innovation and progress towards sustainable and affordable housing. I cannot help but feel like a lot of the probl…

I wonder if this is a North American thing. I noticed in Sweden and the Netherlands the newly-built houses tend to have a more "solid feel" and sensible arrangements. Though I can't speak for their structural integrity since I'm no expert. They also seems to be less attached to faux-period styles and more readily embrace contemporary designs.

It is probably very American. A lot of zoning regulation emerged from racist white flight ideology where, as the middle class white families fled urban settings, they pushed new suburban townships and urban sprawl they caused to adopt extremely tight building regulations to push the cost of construction so high the "inferior" races couldn't afford to tarnish their beautiful communities.

And this isn't some long ago historical thing. This was the 50s and 60s.

Re: A house that costs $20k

#205

Post by mathgladiator » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 2:50 AM UTC

st3v3r wrote: post #175

mathgladiator wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to know too; having somewhat recently bought a house, and I've started to upgrade it. I can see $20,000 going really fast for simple things.

This is starting from scratch, though. You have existing stuff that you have to work within.

Even from scratch, I considered building my own house. The cheapestimated possibly is to use cargo containers, but that requires a ton of welding and cutting. I'm curious how the designs here save on so much material. Also, having picked up wood working, I can say that wood isn't cheap.

Re: A house that costs $20k

#206

Post by pjlegato » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 4:33 AM UTC

zanny wrote: post #194

strgrd wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where can I buy one though?

At least in the US, zoning and construction ordinances are incredible barriers to innovation and are part of the reason why the real estate market is out of control. These were systems put in place decades ago, often due to class warfare to keep the "riff-raff" out of desirable neighborhoods, that punish innovation and progress towards sustainable and affordable housing. I cannot help but feel like a lot of the probl…

> due to class warfare to keep the "riff-raff" out of desirable neighborhoods

Actually, the exact opposite is the case: US zoning laws were created by the 1910s/1920s era "progressive" movement as a leftist social improvement project. The goal was to legally require that poor people would thenceforth all live in such conditions as the (mostly bourgeois) progressives deemed correct and "proper" according to middle class mores of the day, by making other conditions illegal.

See e.g. "Living Downtown" by Paul Groth for more info: http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft6j49p...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Era

Re: A house that costs $20k

#207

Post by toomanybeersies » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 7:15 AM UTC

reboog711 wrote: post #124

toomanybeersies wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really have to wonder how necessary some of these codes are. Houses already last 60 or 70 years, which is plenty, by the time they're at a point where they need rebuilding they're hopelessly outdated. I was helping my father with building a house over Christmas, some of the regulations are ridiculous, we had to build a massive retaining wall with 200 mm posts going 1.5 m down, just because the earth it was retain…

My current residence was built in 1890 and I would not consider it 'hopelessly outdated' or in need of rebuilding.

The house I was renting last year had no insulation, no double glazing, no vapor barrier. No fireplace, and a single heatpump.

Borer all through the walls, and a hopeless design (rotated the wrong way so the kitchen got no sun) didn't help either.

Maybe it's survivors bias, those houses that are 125 years old now tend to be looked after and kept up to date.

Re: A house that costs $20k

#208

Post by okc » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 9:50 AM UTC

OrwellianChild wrote: post #201

okc wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally follow the logic. Though, if salaries are not enough to support a mortgage application this model will trap people in a renting cycle. A precarious one at that. The interesting part in the model you present is the use of investment portfolios to get on the housing ladder. Its as if working hard isn't enough, you need some extra device, with a degree of risk and luck to make the leap to home ownership. Its…

@okc: Been following this conversation, and I really appreciate the honest exchange of ideas and viewpoints... Regarding your ideas: Rental cap indexed to minimum wage: Unfortunately, in the US, this would mean no rental properties in most of the developed cities in the country. We can't control what people earn, and price of building housing is not directly connected to what individuals make. First time buyers get p…

Yeah thanks, all these points are valid.

Re Landlord (and house) refs: references have lots of pitfuls. Ideally even in a boom town, being able to ref you landlord could warn you off the repeatedly terrible ones. The real problem is authenticity, it may get abused heavily by everyone.(imagine a hydrid anarchical version of all the rating problems inherent in eBay and TripAdvisor).

It seems a fair idea but difficult to implement. Would a simple message board based system be enough for a discerning reader? Any solutions for a system like this?

Re: A house that costs $20k

#209

Post by refurb » Fri, Feb 05, 2016, 5:32 PM UTC

st3v3r wrote: post #185

refurb wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which means rent is still transferring money from the poor to the rich. If you have a mortgage, you're hopefully building up equity Have you seen what percentage of your mortgage payment is equity early on? You're lucky if it's 5%. The rest is interest that goes to the "rich". Not sure I see much difference between owning and renting when it comes to who gets the money.

5% is more than 0. And over time, it does grow.

Sure, your equity grows over time, but lets say you buy a house and live in it for 5 years. Add in the relator fees, title taxes, maintenance, property taxes and interest paid on the mortgage.

Now compare that with renting. In some situations you might be better off, but that usually requires appreciation in the value of your home. Often renting leaves you with more money in your pocket than buying does.

Re: A house that costs $20k

#210

Post by garrettgrimsley » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 1:33 AM UTC

delbel wrote: post #158

rubidium wrote: post #113

This house is not for you. This house is for poor people who live in rural or urban decaying homes. Their roofs leak and collapse, their insulation in non-existent, their plumbing doesn't work. This is a big issue, and having worked with a number of situations like this, being able to get someone a new house for $20K that functions would be huge. $20K (or even $30K) for a functional, well-designed, "tornado-resistant…

Roof looks good to me. If its the same delta rib panels I installed, I had a choice of a 83 year warranty or a 100 year warranty. Snow load angle looks good also. They are off the ground and the roof extends out a bit so that the water stays off the side. I think they are built fine.

They were referring to poor people's homes.