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NYC Fire Department Forcible Entry Manual (2006) [pdf]

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Re: NYC Fire Department Forcible Entry Manual (2006) [pdf]

#4

Post by JshWright »

honyock wrote: post #2

"Prior to forcing a door: The Forcible Entry Team should: TRY THE DOOR to determine 'IS THE DOOR LOCKED?'" Nice.

When my sister was in the fire academy, there was a nearby hotel slated to be demolished, so they used it for training. On one particular evolution, the task was "Search this whole floor for victims". The first door was locked, so they forced it (not an easy task with hotel doors designed to be reasonably secure), and then proceeded to break down every other door on the floor (20 minutes later, they're completely spent...).

Turns out, the instructors had only locked the first door, and they hadn't bothered to check any of the others, just assuming they were also locked.

Always, always, always try before you pry.

Re: NYC Fire Department Forcible Entry Manual (2006) [pdf]

#7

Post by ludicast »

Interesting seeing this posted here.

I've spent the past decade+ as a firefighter with the FDNY and this is always a go-to book (at least for monday-morning-quarterbacking how somebody did something). It's one of the few times a book does a good job at mirroring actual practice. We have a lot of other books on tools and procedures, but this one is more interesting to a hacker's mindset.

Some notes:

- trying the doorknob is indeed important advice. I think the ones I've forced have always been locked, but there are plenty of times I can't guarantee 100% that I checked the doorknob first.

- always good to jiggle the door before you attack it to see just where the locks are locked on the inside.

- the halligan tool is perfectly made, but the different ways of increasing leverage are always useful (like marrying it to another, or chocking the door with an axe (or wooden chocks) to maintain progress and you "work your way up").

- breaching a wall is sometimes an option. Sometimes a $1000 door has a $10 sheet of drywall right next to it. Only needed to do this a few times but makes you look like an animal when you do it.

- no matter how hard a door is, the hydra-ram is almost always guaranteed to open it. but we usually use this as a last resort or for emergencies where you can't waste time "d&$*ing around".

- never give up your tool. basically, if you are working to force a door, but it's taking some time and someone says "let me give a try", don't take the bait. If someone else pops your door for you, you will never live it down.

- on my first run ever, a gentleman from my company showed me how to twist off padlocks like in the example on the bottom of p.122. An obvious trick, but worked well though my career and I got to show it to a bunch of people. Trivial example but I only mention it because he died last year of WTC-related-illness.

- I always had a tool like this: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Estwing-10-in-Pro-Claw-Moulding-P... in my coat pocket (a little better model though). Worked great for lighter doors with minimal locks (staircases, internal offices, closets etc.)

Re: NYC Fire Department Forcible Entry Manual (2006) [pdf]

#9

Post by monkmartinez »

ludicast wrote: post #7

Interesting seeing this posted here. I've spent the past decade+ as a firefighter with the FDNY and this is always a go-to book (at least for monday-morning-quarterbacking how somebody did something). It's one of the few times a book does a good job at mirroring actual practice. We have a lot of other books on tools and procedures, but this one is more interesting to a hacker's mindset. Some notes: - trying the doork…

It is interesting... I guess FDNY for east coasters and LA County/City for the west coasters are like the Google/Apple of the fire service world. You guys have a unique set of problems; scale, frequency of high risk operations, etc. Even if those problems don't apply to smaller departments, they (we) emulate your tactics/strategy and constantly compare what we are doing to FDNY/LACO Fire. It's not always applicable, but one can rest assured that the strategy or tactic will get us "in the ball park" or serve as a good starting point.

The really interesting thing happening in the fire service is the NIST research, IMO. We have built some fire props based on the research and have changed our strategy significantly. Also, due to the thermodynamic studies NIST has provided we have changed the entire conversation regarding fire behaviour in west coast areas. Personally, I am always trying to find something relevant to hack on that would provide some value to the fire service...

Re: NYC Fire Department Forcible Entry Manual (2006) [pdf]

#10

Post by JshWright »

ludicast wrote: post #7

Interesting seeing this posted here. I've spent the past decade+ as a firefighter with the FDNY and this is always a go-to book (at least for monday-morning-quarterbacking how somebody did something). It's one of the few times a book does a good job at mirroring actual practice. We have a lot of other books on tools and procedures, but this one is more interesting to a hacker's mindset. Some notes: - trying the doork…

That doc could use a little more in the way of discussion about controlling fire flow. It briefly mentions control of the door (though I assume that talking about short term "don't get yourself cooked" control). It also talks a lot about chocking the door. It doesn't talk much about all the times you would want to avoid chocking the door.

We don't chock doors by default. We secure them so they remain openable, but we don't chock them open unless we have another reason for leaving them open. Controlling airflow is critical in firefighting (something we in the US are just starting to come around to with the research being done by NIST/UL, etc). Propping a door open means you risk taking a fire that is burning rich (and therefore 'cool') and pushing it closer to an ideal stoichiometric ratio. We're actually in the process of putting 'door curtains' on the rigs so that we can chock the door, but drop a canvas curtain over the opening to block airflow.

(I suspect you're very aware of this, as the Governors Island tests were critical to the recent NIST/UL studies, just wanted to add some more color to your comment and the posted document)

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