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Heisenberg Developers (2014)

mikehadlow.blogspot.cl

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Re: Heisenberg Developers (2014)

#91

Post by eyko »

CryoLogic wrote: post #4

One issue with how developers are hired these days, is many large companies are hiring largely for classical knowledge (aka, memorizing: Algorithms, DS) and mathematical ability. Try interviewing at MS, big G or Amazon and you will see what I mean. These developers are great as code monkeys, but a lot of them don't have any idea what their code contributes to, or even how their business makes money. I attended a hack…

Triplebyte has a blogpost[1] that seems quite relevant. Most companies seem to want "product programmers"[2], as opposed to technical or enterprise programmers. The second link below is another blogpost by them explaining this taxonomy.

It would be interesting to see how much this applies to non y-combinator companies (which is what their study covered), but I'd have a guess and say that, for most startups, quite a lot.

1. https://data.triplebyte.com/who-y-combinator-companies-want-... 2. https://data.triplebyte.com/a-taxonomy-of-programmers-d0e9d8...

Re: Heisenberg Developers (2014)

#92

Post by taylodl »

Ever work with an engineering team? Building new weapons systems? Fighter planes and the like? Just as creative an endeavor if not more so than software development yet they have schedules and budgets to meet too. And yet people's lives depend on the result. Software development can learn a lot from other engineering disciplines.

Re: Heisenberg Developers (2014)

#93

Post by fsloth »

skewart wrote: post #82
fsloth wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author is simply describing a transformation from a system driven mostly by intrinsic motivation to a system driven by an extrinsic one. Typically complex tasks are solved better in an environment with emphasis on intrinsic motivators. It's not wissful thinking. It's a keen observation. Basically management offloads the responsibility of actually managing to a process of accounting. It's a less skillfull, less pr…

This, 100%. I agree that complex tasks are generally better solved in an environment driven by intrinsic motivation - heck, probably all tasks and not just complex tasks. I'm not sure if Jira and other task tracking tools can be used just as well to document work done by intrinsic motivators though. I mean, yes, they _can_ be, but I don't think they're as good as they could be. In fact, I'd say there's a big gap in t…

"there's a big gap in the market for a solution that gives non-technical managers some reassurance that progress is being made"

That's not a tool gap but a trust gap in the team, and no tool can remedy that, IMO.

Re: Heisenberg Developers (2014)

#94

Post by pc86 »

CryoLogic wrote: post #4

One issue with how developers are hired these days, is many large companies are hiring largely for classical knowledge (aka, memorizing: Algorithms, DS) and mathematical ability. Try interviewing at MS, big G or Amazon and you will see what I mean. These developers are great as code monkeys, but a lot of them don't have any idea what their code contributes to, or even how their business makes money. I attended a hack…

> I attended a hackathon with a number of Amazon employees, and one of my distinct memories was a Principal Engineer who didn't even know what "publicly traded" meant and was sure that Bezos owned 100% of the company.

This is terrifying. I wouldn't be surprised if his 401(k) was 100% Amazon stock "because that's where he works" or something.

Re: Heisenberg Developers (2014)

#95

Post by pc86 »

rorykoehler wrote: post #24
CryoLogic wrote: post #4

One issue with how developers are hired these days, is many large companies are hiring largely for classical knowledge (aka, memorizing: Algorithms, DS) and mathematical ability. Try interviewing at MS, big G or Amazon and you will see what I mean. These developers are great as code monkeys, but a lot of them don't have any idea what their code contributes to, or even how their business makes money. I attended a hack…

Anecdotal I know but I've been told that my business knowledge and curiosity is not welcome nor wanted whilst developing and that I should be more single minded to churning out code. We live in an economic environment where specialisation is valued over all else. Polymaths and generalists struggle in this environment unless they found the business themselves or are lucky enough to get picked up by a large company to…

I think it depends on the job for which you're applying.

We want our senior developers to be willing to dig into business requirements and constraints without being asked to. Curiosity, orthogonal business knowledge, etc are important at that level and higher.

However, we've seen multiple times that the junior developers just can't do it with the rare exception. They have enough work getting up to speed on one or more of: the language, the large internal system, the large client systems, how the client works, how to be an employee, how to deliver value over the long term and not go 2 weeks with no delivery then 2 weeks with, etc.

Re: Heisenberg Developers (2014)

#96

Post by adrianN »

pile_it_high wrote: post #81
vinceguidry wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it easy enough. I learn new things for fun. I don't consider it taxing at all. Anyone who wants to pay me to learn something new, I'm happy to oblige them.

I envy you. Mostly being a programmer learning "new" things is the same as a taxi driver moving to a different city every half year and learn the new topology. In both cases, you're not learning anything that is fundamental to human knowledge.

Well, unless you're a research scientist, nothing you ever learn is fundamental to human knowledge.

But depending on what you spend your time learning, you can improve in your craft. I think that is valuable. For some people becoming excellent craftsmen gives them purpose in life.

Re: Heisenberg Developers (2014)

#97

Post by pc86 »

paulus_magnus2 wrote: post #7
CryoLogic wrote: post #4

One issue with how developers are hired these days, is many large companies are hiring largely for classical knowledge (aka, memorizing: Algorithms, DS) and mathematical ability. Try interviewing at MS, big G or Amazon and you will see what I mean. These developers are great as code monkeys, but a lot of them don't have any idea what their code contributes to, or even how their business makes money. I attended a hack…

Geeky (single focus) developers are - cheaper - do not get distracted by politics / business - easier to control / manipulate into lower salaries

I seriously doubt there's any supporting evidence for the idea that people focuses on coding over business have any trouble negotiating a reasonable salary.

Re: Heisenberg Developers (2014)

#98

Post by scandox »

CryoLogic wrote: post #4

One issue with how developers are hired these days, is many large companies are hiring largely for classical knowledge (aka, memorizing: Algorithms, DS) and mathematical ability. Try interviewing at MS, big G or Amazon and you will see what I mean. These developers are great as code monkeys, but a lot of them don't have any idea what their code contributes to, or even how their business makes money. I attended a hack…

My experience in interviews is that my interest in and focus on the end product and business make me appear more lightweight technically. "Not enough of a nerd"...basically.

Re: Heisenberg Developers (2014)

#99

Post by golergka »

rorykoehler wrote: post #85
shiftb wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's odd. We get excited when we see an entrepreneurial profile like yours. We have several developers who want to start companies and actually try to help them along that path. The benefit to a motivated engineer is you can give them problems to solve instead of specs. The outcome or results can be less predictable but can also be much more effective.

How do you feel about the potential for high turnover with entrepreneurial types, as it seems the general consensus is they will inevitably leave to start their own thing? How long do you expect someone to work for you before hiring them, getting them up to speed with your system, and integrating them into the company is a worthwhile investment?

When I get asked this in an interview, I always answer the same way: yes, I will probably go to the next gig faster than other employees. But I will get up to speed faster, and I will produce more output for the business itself in the time I'll spend in your company.

Re: Heisenberg Developers (2014)

#100

Post by golergka »

CryoLogic wrote: post #28
rorykoehler wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal I know but I've been told that my business knowledge and curiosity is not welcome nor wanted whilst developing and that I should be more single minded to churning out code. We live in an economic environment where specialisation is valued over all else. Polymaths and generalists struggle in this environment unless they found the business themselves or are lucky enough to get picked up by a large company to…

I spent my teenage years building fan sites and social networking sites for games. I made enough money to pay off college, get a nice apartment by the water and have a couple k leftover come graduation. I was curious why I wasn't getting a lot of hits on my resume, so I talked to a recruiter at a networking event who had seen my application (for one of the "unicorns") and she said they where uncomfortable with how en…

May be you should've applied to different companies with different values?
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