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Citizen uses OpenCV to track speeders near his home

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Re: Citizen uses OpenCV to track speeders near his home

#121
post #96
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The major question for me would be data retention – if they monitor speed (or failing to stop at a red light or stop sign, etc.) but fundamentally aren't doing anything different than if they parked an officer there with a radar gun, it doesn't bother me. Saving the data for later mining, OCRing license plates to build a record of cars traveling around town, etc. would be a different story because that affects everyo…

Unfortunately, for the following three scenarios: 1 - Do nothing 2 - Put a camera there just to get a % of cars going 5+ over the limit 3 - Put a camera there to OCR everything and save it in perpetuity The distance between 1 and 2 is quite large but the distance between 2 and 3 is very small and doesn't necessarily come with the same public notice/disclosure/outrage instituting 2 would. The safest course of action s…

I think you're grossly over-estimating the gap between #1 and #2 in a world where network-connected cameras are so cheap and include significant local processing capabilities.

More importantly, however, there are multiple forces driving deployment of cameras in a variety of area (e.g. right now my city is offering homeowners a tax benefit to install one because of an increase in crime, many people want all police activity to be recorded, etc.) and it seems unlikely that anything will reverse that trend. I think that means that the way to prevent abuse isn't to try to fight block the technology but rather to focus on legal protections & oversight – things like retention policies, restricted access and logging, etc. to avoid strengthening the argument that privacy activists are preventing legitimate police work.

Re: Citizen uses OpenCV to track speeders near his home

#122

Some commenters here are commenting as if speeding is some petty thing that doesn't matter. Speeding kills. Something as small as 10 miles over a 30mph may mean a doubling in fatality rate for pedestrians and bicyclists. One source: https://www.aaafoundation.org/sites/default/files/2011Pedest...

Not all speeding is created equal. I agree that 10 miles over a 30 mph zone is probably deadly, if it was properly zoned and not a money-grabbing move (it looks from the article that it was a correct limit, maybe even too high). However, many speeding tickets (at least in my country and others) are due to low maximum speeds on roads intended as main thoroughfares. I read here in HN that plenty of U.S. towns live off…

In a residential subdivision like I live in, speeding is much more dangerous than it would be on a county/city/township road.

There are various things that play against safety in residential roads marked for 25 MPH speeds.

In the winter, they're rarely cleared of snow and ice, making them a hazard to travel even at the speed limit. Cars are parked on both sides of the roads much like a typical city street, reducing visibility of pedestrians as they emerge from between cars unexpectedly. And then there's the children playing in the yard who are preoccupied with their activity and not always paying attention to their own safety.

My daughter is hard of hearing (she requires hearing aids to hear and even with them she doesn't have normal hearing) and very ADD. We've continually lectured her about "not running into the street" without making absolutely certain there are no cars, but on one occasion she was nearly hit chasing a ball despite my wife and I being out front screaming and running after her as she bolted into the road. The ball was destroyed by a speeding car who almost also hit the neighbors mailbox when he swerved to avoid killing her. He missed, thank God, but even afterward continued at his breakneck speed down the rest of the street. Since that incident, we rarely allow her to play in the front yard and never allow it between 4:00 PM and 7:00 PM due to the rush hour traffic using my subdivision as a bypass for a poorly timed intersection's traffic light.

Re: Citizen uses OpenCV to track speeders near his home

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all speeding is created equal. I agree that 10 miles over a 30 mph zone is probably deadly, if it was properly zoned and not a money-grabbing move (it looks from the article that it was a correct limit, maybe even too high). However, many speeding tickets (at least in my country and others) are due to low maximum speeds on roads intended as main thoroughfares. I read here in HN that plenty of U.S. towns live off…

The safety here is not on or off. Each increment of speed causes a corresponding increase of risk. That increase might be small, but that misses the point. The speed limits are a social contract. If someone feels they should increase the risk to others above and beyond that agreement then they can at least fund some civic infrastructure to balance things out.

I don't drive and I don't have a car - but if 85% of cars are exceeding the speed limit, it sounds like that law doesn't have the moral legitimacy that comes from the consent of the governed.

Re: Citizen uses OpenCV to track speeders near his home

#124
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wouldn't fly at all in Germany. If your surveillance camera films public ground, even if it's not the primary object being photographed, you're acting illegally. If, for example, you're trying to monitor your front door to catch a potential burglar and you can see the pavement and the people on it on the video, that's not allowed. You won't be able to use the footage in court even if it shows the burglar clearly…

This seems bizarre to me. Why would you have any expectation of privacy walking down a public street?

Because of the law that prohibits systematic surveillance and archival of your activities?

Re: Citizen uses OpenCV to track speeders near his home

#125

I don't know if people share this opinion, but to me speeding is due to the inadequacy and inconsistency of speed limits. Near my home there is a major thoroughfare with a 35 MPH speed limit. It has no homes facing the road, just a few fenced backyards some fair distance away but mostly it has farms, ponds, and golf courses. People regularly go 40-50 MPH down this road. Another major road that crosses this one has a…

In general, I agree with your points. In Michigan, with a few exceptions (freeway design limitations/residential roads), the speed limit is supposed to be set at (I think) the 85th percentile. Effectively -- county/city/township road speeds are set at the speed most drivers are driving. We're strictly set at 70 MPH on freeways with few exceptions for specific freeways not designed to safely travel at those speeds and the limit will soon be raised to 85 MPH for rural freeways. I've watched the city roads increase speed limits over the last 10 years where I live, which is a busy metropolitan area. It's really quite nice since it's less chaotic when everyone is traveling at around the same speeds on the roads. And it has reduced speeding.

I do not speed -- I had received a ticket in my 20s that raised my insurance rates so much that I just don't accept the risk. There's a road near my house that practically everyone drove 50 MPH down despite a 40 MPH posted speed limit. They raised it two years ago to 55 MPH after a traffic survey and as a result, I am no longer passed when I drive at the posted speed. It's an anecdotal account, but I'm on that road a few times a day many days and it's a stark difference. When the speed limit is set to what people drive, most people stop speeding.

That said, residential roads at 25 MPH is a rule that the 85th percentile rule doesn't apply to -- for good reason. Parked cars where pedestrians emerge, roads that are not maintained well or cleared for snow/ice, and children who do not have the proper sense to not "run off into the street chasing a ball" all make speeding in subdivisions dangerous.

Re: Citizen uses OpenCV to track speeders near his home

#126
post #22

Is it allowed in the USA for an individual to film public space?

Laws vary from state to state covering things like the legal use of telephoto lenses, etc (and some of these laws, themselves, are in violation of federal protections and therefore void). As a general rule you are not violating the law if your camera is aimed at a public place especially if it is located on property you own.

Filming and publishing license plate numbers can get you in trouble in some places and I'm sure there are other rules I'm unaware of related to what you are allowed to publish publicly, but what he's doing is likely very legal and protected by the First Amendment of the US constitution.

Re: Citizen uses OpenCV to track speeders near his home

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The safety here is not on or off. Each increment of speed causes a corresponding increase of risk. That increase might be small, but that misses the point. The speed limits are a social contract. If someone feels they should increase the risk to others above and beyond that agreement then they can at least fund some civic infrastructure to balance things out.

I don't drive and I don't have a car - but if 85% of cars are exceeding the speed limit, it sounds like that law doesn't have the moral legitimacy that comes from the consent of the governed.

Speed limits might not fit that 'moral legitimacy' model very well. We don't even think much about speed limits. We just drive. So morals don't enter into it.

I'd say the street must not be posted right, or maybe its got an unusual speed limit for the type of road. That fools people. We have a local road on the West side that should be a thoroughfare. But its zoned residential, so 30MPH. Everybody speeds - there are no driveways, no slow traffic, no pedestrian traffic, no risk. I'd argue they just got the signs wrong.

Re: Citizen uses OpenCV to track speeders near his home

#128
post #20
post #6

> At 4:27 p.m. last Wednesday, the system caught a Route 11 city bus doing 34 mph. Which isn't even fast enough to get a ticket from local police. In my state (which is not Virginia, and it will vary everywhere), local police are prohibited from using radar and need to use an actual stopwatch to track your speed. Obviously very error prone, and they're supposed to basically give you 10 mph leeway - meaning on that ro…

I live in Va, just not that part, and the rule of thumb is anything less then 10mph over and you generally won't get a ticket. The only exception to this is places like school zones.

That's generally the same in Michigan unless it is a subdivision/residential area, but even then it's rare for a cop to waste the time. It's possible to get a ticket for going 1-5 MPH over the limit. It's described as a "we can find a reason to pull you over for what we want to pull you over for but do not have enough evidence to do so" such as you're having done something suspicious at a known drug house or someone calling about how many drinks you've had at a bar despite you not driving suspiciously. It's crap, but it's common.

Most of the time people receiving the 1-5 MPH tickets are receiving them for violating the speed well beyond that amount (with the actual clocked speed written on the ticket). This encourages people to just pay the ticket without fighting it since they've been given a much lower civil infraction and it makes it a lot harder to succeed in court since the judge knows "radar calibration/accuracy" is much less likely with the written, clocked speed.

Re: Citizen uses OpenCV to track speeders near his home

#129
I've taken a bit of my lunchtime to comment on this post in various places but one that kept coming up is "is there code for this, somewhere?"

I have a camera setup on my RPi for this purpose, but never got around to tying in OpenCV (though it's something that's been on my list for some time). At the time I couldn't find/didn't look hard enough for a good open source implementation.

It looks like this can be done relatively easily using an RPi and Python: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=813535#p8...

The Github repo for the code is here: https://github.com/pageauc/motion-track/tree/master/speed-tr...

Video with a code walk-through and demo is here: https://youtu.be/eRi50BbJUro

I know what I'll be doing tonight. :o)

Re: Citizen uses OpenCV to track speeders near his home

#130
post #16
post #4

Welcome to the age of nitpicking busybodies. Next month, he'll have a facial recognition system for dog walkers who fail to curb their dog.

The term busybody normally refers to someone who's trying to force an opinion into a situation, not actual actual violations of the law and definitely not when the problem came to you without having to seek it out first. Beyond the different seriousness of the two things you're conflating – did you notice the bit about him doing this after a kid was hit? – both of those are actually illegal and endanger other people.

It is forcing opinion on the situation -- that speed limits and punitive enforcement is a solution to the traffic problem. It's almost always a knee-jerk.

A 25 mph speed limit on a street with a bus route is applying a band-aid in most situations. You're never going to get 100% compliance with traffic law, so if a safe pedestrian corridor depends on that, you lose. (By the way, "stepped up" enforcement lasts until the local neighborhood association folks get a ticket for rolling through a stop sign.)

I had a similar issue in my neighborhood a mother and child were hit by a driver making a turn in a corridor with a lot of near misses. Instead of going on some punitive goose chase of enforcing an unrealistic speed limit, we (members of a neighborhood association) approached it as what it was -- a traffic engineering problem.

In our case, traffic light timings weren't adjusted appropriately, so drivers felt compelled to "race" in order to catch a light. Lane markings were unclear, so it wasn't obvious where drivers should be if they were turning. Crosswalks tape was pulled up, and it wasn't obvious to a driver turning where the pedestrians crossed. Also, the pedestrian signal buttons were broken.

We lobbied the city council people and mayor pretty heavily, and they made a few modest investments in signals, signage, paint and a traffic study. 5 years later, accidents dropped by 40% in that corridor.

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