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Research into ketamine as a treatment for severe depression

washingtonpost.com

11–20 of 58 posts

Re: Research into ketamine as a treatment for severe depression

#11
post #5

While this is undeniably impressive and hopeful, it should be noted that these are short-term affects. The article mentions this: "So far, there is no evidence of addiction at the low dose in which infusions are delivered. Ketamine does, however, have one major limitation: Its relief is temporary. Clinical trials at NIMH have found that relapse usually occurs about a week after a single infusion." It then goes on to…

I have only been moderately depressed, and I have no experience with this particular treatment... but I have had experiences that for a few hours swept away my anxiety, poor self-image, and so on. Metaphorically, it's been like opening a window for someone who's been stuck in a basement. Even without extreme euphoria—just a simple sense of contentment, like nothing is very wrong—that's such a revelation.

A big part of depression seems to be this incapacity to even imagine any kind of robust, non-fake happiness. In bad moments one can even get paranoid: like, why is everyone going around pretending like they're happy, when they obviously cannot be? I think it's like this with any persistent mood; your whole world view is altered.

So however you find it, just a couple of hours of, say, having a conversation where you don't feel like the worst loser in the universe and the nadir of civilization, that just shows you something about life.

"Oh... I... I am just a person like these other people... I don't have to radiate horror and disgust... I can just stretch my arms right now and feel my body as an animal with the right to live and enjoy... Huh... Hah! Hahaha!"

And then the next morning maybe you feel like crap again, sure. But the understanding that these are just different mind states is so valuable. Like, for someone who really doesn't believe in anything except depression anymore, I totally understand suicide. So giving people the chance to feel something else, even just for an hour—if psychiatry can start to really do that, that's so wonderful.

Re: Research into ketamine as a treatment for severe depression

#12
post #5

While this is undeniably impressive and hopeful, it should be noted that these are short-term affects. The article mentions this: "So far, there is no evidence of addiction at the low dose in which infusions are delivered. Ketamine does, however, have one major limitation: Its relief is temporary. Clinical trials at NIMH have found that relapse usually occurs about a week after a single infusion." It then goes on to…

> First, when my depression gets really acute it basically means that I simply am unable to leave the house.

You also would not really want to leave the house on Ketamine.

Re: Research into ketamine as a treatment for severe depression

#13
post #7

FTA: "While a single dose of ketamine is cheaper than a $2 bottle of water, the cost to the consumer varies wildly, running anywhere between $500 and $1,500 per treatment." Sigh.... why? Why must we turn any opportunity into a money grab?

That seems like a silly statement. Treating a patient with a dose of ketamine includes a lot more costs than just the drug. If a patient comes in and gets an infusion of ketamine, even if the procedure only takes 1 hr (infuse and observe), you need to pay for the building, the nurse, the physician, all the backroom staff, etc. Hell, I go into my primary care doctor for an annual physician and it costs ~$200. I see th…

It also includes the costs for people that don't pay (less of a thing at a clinic than a hospital) and probably some costs associated with Medicare and Medicaid (of course only if they reimburse below the actual cost).

It'd be cool if the bill explicitly listed the actual costs separately from the implicit taxes (hospitals must provide stabilizing treatment, they don't get direct reimbursements for it, this is effectively a tax).

Re: Research into ketamine as a treatment for severe depression

#15
A good resource on Ketamine is Erowid's Ketamine vault: https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ketamine/

The list of Ketamine related publications at https://www.erowid.org/references/refs.php?S=ketamine lists the first study on effects on depression as from 2000 (just a quick Ctrl-F search, their might be earlier studies).

Re: Research into ketamine as a treatment for severe depression

#18
post #8

Here is anecdotal evidence for another interesting "drug": http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16542786 In this study, N=small, but nevertheless, I think it is a very interesting article. Because the effects are so rapid, and magnesium supplementation is in general harmless, it is imho definitely a good idea to see if a magnesium deficiency is the cause of the disorder. Please take note that not all magnesium suppleme…

Anecdotal again, but if it helps anyone else - my SO used to suffer with regular migraines, but since taking daily magnesium they have completely gone away

Re: Research into ketamine as a treatment for severe depression

#19
post #11
post #5

While this is undeniably impressive and hopeful, it should be noted that these are short-term affects. The article mentions this: "So far, there is no evidence of addiction at the low dose in which infusions are delivered. Ketamine does, however, have one major limitation: Its relief is temporary. Clinical trials at NIMH have found that relapse usually occurs about a week after a single infusion." It then goes on to…

I have only been moderately depressed, and I have no experience with this particular treatment... but I have had experiences that for a few hours swept away my anxiety, poor self-image, and so on. Metaphorically, it's been like opening a window for someone who's been stuck in a basement. Even without extreme euphoria—just a simple sense of contentment, like nothing is very wrong—that's such a revelation. A big part o…

> So however you find it, just a couple of hours of, say, having a conversation where you don't feel like the worst loser in the universe and the nadir of civilization, that just shows you something about life.

It really would have been nice for me while i was a child. yes. i should have been given ketamine as a child. my depression was so bad for most of my life that i could count the days where i didn't feel depressed, didn't feel like a leper or a zombie going through the motions of life, and it protected itself: at some point i just stopped acting out my terrible feelings because it seemed like it only caused trouble with the adults and alienated me from my peers. that became a feedback loop that prevented me from expressing depressive sentiments for over a decade. if i could have been functional enough even for one week to clearly explain what was wrong to someone, maybe the structural defects in my life that caused my depression could have been ameliorated.

but that's all hindsight. i want to live in a world where no child is left to wallow in their depression. i don't know what you've been through and (maybe still?) go through, but it sounds awfully similar to what i deal with. i wish you didn't have to.

Re: Research into ketamine as a treatment for severe depression

#20
post #17

Ugh Ketamine. "Only Fools and Horses" as we say on this side of the Atlantic.

Is that the side of the Atlantic that has serious problems with binge drinking of alcohol?

No - the side that has a sense of humour.
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