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Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units

reuters.com

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Re: Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units

#181

Post by taurath »

tptacek wrote: post #163
lisper wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Impossible? Yahoo had gross income of $4.6B in 2014. That is one hell of a cash flow stream. I find it very hard to believe that turning that into a profitable venture again would violate the laws of either physics or economics. I think a much more likely explanation is that Marissa failed because she brought no new ideas to the table, and also made a whole bunch of boneheaded blunders like this: http://gawker.com/59…

It had a top-line of 4.6B, but 1.2B in fixed costs and a little over 3B in payroll expenses. Yahoo's problems have absolutely nothing to do with Mayer having a "nursery" put into her office. She could have taken minimum wage and no other compensation, and no part of this story would have turned out differently, except they might have sold the company by now. Arguments about Mayer's performance on threads like these a…

If there's no difference in whether she would've been paid zero dollars, then thats a pretty good argument that they should find someone that will take zero dollars - just find someone that wants to commit reputation suicide!

Re: Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units

#182

Post by perseusprime11 »

nobleach wrote: post #99
legohead wrote: post #6

So I guess she did mean something when she said, "No layoffs...this week" [1] Brutal. [1] http://nypost.com/2016/01/18/marissa-mayers-job-safety-joke-...

It's incredibly sad when something like this happens. And I sure hope anyone who's found themselves out of a job, success in finding another. Even the "lower performers" still need to work. What I do hope for Yahoo, is that they're taking a solid look at who they consider expendable. Are self-important big shots also losing their jobs? Or are they too important to fire? When I see any company start to get rid of thei…

How much do you want to bet she will start her Venture Capital firm after this debacle?

Re: Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units

#183

Post by spc476 »

huac wrote: post #97
oldmanjay wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what definition of "better" would apply but I'm certain there is a non-zero number of people who would prefer to see yahoo slowly die while paying the last of its money out to workers.

companies are for shareholders, not workers

PUBLIC companies are for shareholders, now workers. Private companies are another issue.

Re: Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units

#184

Post by tptacek »

henrikschroder wrote: post #176
jqm wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few hundred bucks per attending employee for a Christmas party is a lot by most working people's standards... probably like 12x + what their company would spend.

Yes, by most people's standards, which is why the piece is working, it creates envy in a lot of people. Same with the "free food" spiel. But Yahoo is competing for Silicon Valley software engineers, and perks are very common, so if you don't have free food, free snacks, office parties, events, and other benefits, you'll have to pay your employees a lot more. Perks are incredibly cheap for the company, because people…

Perks are incredibly cheap for the company, because people value them much more than they would the corresponding pay raise.

This is so obviously true that it's a cynicism generator on HN, with people routinely commenting about how Google's free food is a kind of scam. But what's true and what rings true depends on the prevailing narrative, and the prevailing narrative about Mayer and Yahoo is that she's fiddling while Rome burns.

Re: Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units

#185

Post by tptacek »

spikels wrote: post #179
meat_fist wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for this? I can only find posts from several years ago saying Tumblr will soon be profitable.

About a year ago Yahoo said they expected Tumblr to generate $100 million in revenue (not profit) in 2015. I'm not saying Tumblr is profitable (don't think they ever said) or it was a great investment (cost $1.1B in 2013) but at least it generates significant revenue and uniques have around doubled since they bought it. That was a RELATIVELY good purchase.

There's also the strategic issue: if you believe Yahoo has to have a foot in "social"† to remain relevant and continue commanding the ad dollars from search and their site network, Tumblr was probably the most credible social network they could have bought; they got it for $1.2B. Who else could they have bought?

† for want of better term

Re: Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units

#186

Post by tptacek »

Someone1234 wrote: post #175
anotherhacker wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lavish parties send the wrong message to employees. If I were CEO I'd say: "No more parties. We're going to use the to retrain employees (instead of firing them) and avoid layoffs." Mayer is turing out to be a terrible CEO. This article describes the various multi-million dollar parties. http://www.businessinsider.com/yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayer-blows...

That article is really damning. Makes it seem like she is going to cash out as Yahoo! goes down in flames around her. All she needs to do right now is keep it alive long enough to cash out all of her stock... Someone remind me again why corporations pay their CEOs over 100m/year? And tell me about value, that's a huge chunk of change for someone in Yahoo!'s position, they could use that money to keep employees workin…

First, I don't think Mayer makes over 100MM per year, or anything close to that.

Second, CEOs get paid lots of money because the market punishes firms that aren't growing and have no-name CEOs, and the cost of a name-brand CEO is probably more than cancelled out by avoiding that penalty. By the time Mayer was recruited, the market consensus was that Yahoo needed a turnaround CEO. There are no cheap turnaround CEOs for companies managing 4-5B in annual revenue.

Mayer's entire yearly salary is a rounding error compared to the total headcount cost of operating Yahoo, which is widely believed to be both tremendously overstaffed and larded with third-party contractor contracts.

Further, ask yourself: what exactly does it accomplish for Mayer to forego a salary in order to keep 1% (check my math, I might be way off) of Yahoo's workforce employed if that workforce isn't doing anything to improve Yahoo's outlook? Yahoo isn't a charity: everything it's employees do ostensibly have to have some hope of providing a return on investment.

Re: Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units

#187

Post by anotherhacker »

henrikschroder wrote: post #180
anotherhacker wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lavish parties send the wrong message to employees. If I were CEO I'd say: "No more parties. We're going to use the to retrain employees (instead of firing them) and avoid layoffs." Mayer is turing out to be a terrible CEO. This article describes the various multi-million dollar parties. http://www.businessinsider.com/yahoo-ceo-marissa-mayer-blows...

That's not how it works. That's a terrible suggestion. If you cut perks, your best and brightest will leave much quicker, the elves leave middle earth. And then your company is essentially screwed, because you'll lose all of your key personnel. And you won't save very much money. This is the way of the bean-counters who know nothing of human motivation and morale. $1000 per employee is less than a percentage of their…

I don't believe that the "best and brightest" consider lavish parties as a deciding factor in where they work.

Notice how I phrased it. It's not cost cutting. It's about investing in employees. That is something the "best and the brightest" love.

Re: Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units

#188

Post by anotherhacker »

tptacek wrote: post #186
Someone1234 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article is really damning. Makes it seem like she is going to cash out as Yahoo! goes down in flames around her. All she needs to do right now is keep it alive long enough to cash out all of her stock... Someone remind me again why corporations pay their CEOs over 100m/year? And tell me about value, that's a huge chunk of change for someone in Yahoo!'s position, they could use that money to keep employees workin…

First, I don't think Mayer makes over 100MM per year, or anything close to that. Second, CEOs get paid lots of money because the market punishes firms that aren't growing and have no-name CEOs, and the cost of a name-brand CEO is probably more than cancelled out by avoiding that penalty. By the time Mayer was recruited, the market consensus was that Yahoo needed a turnaround CEO. There are no cheap turnaround CEOs fo…

The figure is based upon stock options and bonuses.

It's here in this picture:

http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/566edfb272f2c150028...

Re: Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units

#189

Post by tomp »

jpetso wrote: post #104
tomp wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they're going to kill Yahoo because it deserves to die; a company not making money doesn't really have a reason for existence, does it? (Or it should become a charity instead.)

I think there is some value in providing jobs to 10,000 people (currently more, soon a little less) even if there's no extra profit for shareholders on top of that. Maybe these kinds of companies should just be given to employees for free and run as a co-op instead of getting shut down.

> I think there is some value in providing jobs to 10,000 people

Sure there is, but it's not the purpose of companies to provide that, but should be done by the society (government) if the society decides there's value in that.

Re: Yahoo to cut 15 percent jobs, close several units

#190

Post by msie »

spikels wrote: post #171
nobleach wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's incredibly sad when something like this happens. And I sure hope anyone who's found themselves out of a job, success in finding another. Even the "lower performers" still need to work. What I do hope for Yahoo, is that they're taking a solid look at who they consider expendable. Are self-important big shots also losing their jobs? Or are they too important to fire? When I see any company start to get rid of thei…

Tumblr gets little respect but it was one of the better purchases Yahoo made. It actually generates revenue. Many of the others were shut down months later with neither revenue, talent or technology to show for it.

Oh man, what are the developers DOING at Tumblr? I tried using their api but got stuck requesting xAuth access for my application. Haven't heard back from them yet after several weeks.
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