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Computers shouldn't make people feel like idiots

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Re: Computers shouldn't make people feel like idiots

#11

Post by pwhelan »

lurkinggrue wrote: post #5
tdoggette wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard for gentle pushing from software design to overcome years of learned helplessness.

Around 92 I was forced into a required class for basic computers. I didn't pay much attention, but got A's as it was covering topics I already knew well. What I did learn from that class was from the students as I noticed many were just downright afrid of the machines and would only do what the teacher said. There was no sense of play and the fear of "Blowing something up" was always there and I wondered how anybody…

You are right, the basic operations for people should be more robust. Perhaps something that automatically backs up Office Documents every night to limit work that is lost? Continuing to ship recovery discs with machines? There are many approaches to this problem but each with its own peril. The solution could be lucrative.

However, I understand the fear of the machine though. Most people are fearful when they first begin to drive, first begin to use power tools or begin to fire weapons in uncontrolled, unsupervised scenarios.

Re: Computers shouldn't make people feel like idiots

#12

Post by Skriticos »

willNotCompile wrote: post #6

Somehow I don't think that learning how to operate a unique proprietary user interface(iPad) will help people to operate a real desktop computer. While it may temporary help to boost users self confidence in using a computer it will only serve as a fallback after the inevetable frustrations with a full UI. What is realy apsent from the mind of older generations is the idea that computers are just tools, albeit imensl…

A bit wrong of a comparison. A car is a tool, and can get dangerous, which is why it has this strict interface and education rules.

Computer usage is more like math. It's something you just need, part of every day life, though many people still hate it, as it is more flexible. GUI's really share similar concepts, you just have to adapt them, and if people hate one word, than it's adapt - seriously hate.

You really have time to figure out how things work and GUI's are really no rocket science to figure out.

Nobody expects users to become system administrators or application developers, but answering questions about self explaining clickable graphical elements is very painful. (With a little endurance you could probably get a chimpanzee to understand most of our 'modern' UI's).

Re: Computers shouldn't make people feel like idiots

#13

Post by asmosoinio »

willNotCompile wrote: post #6

Somehow I don't think that learning how to operate a unique proprietary user interface(iPad) will help people to operate a real desktop computer. While it may temporary help to boost users self confidence in using a computer it will only serve as a fallback after the inevetable frustrations with a full UI. What is realy apsent from the mind of older generations is the idea that computers are just tools, albeit imensl…

But why would all these people need a "real desktop computer"? People need to read their emails, browse their facebooks, store and browse their images... And most of them will get all this done easier with a simpler device than a "real" computer.

Re: Computers shouldn't make people feel like idiots

#14

Post by rayboyd »

cracell wrote: post #7
lurkinggrue wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around 92 I was forced into a required class for basic computers. I didn't pay much attention, but got A's as it was covering topics I already knew well. What I did learn from that class was from the students as I noticed many were just downright afrid of the machines and would only do what the teacher said. There was no sense of play and the fear of "Blowing something up" was always there and I wondered how anybody…

When I was about 9 or so I became extremely interesting in computers. I wasn't afraid of them....and I broke them over and over usually to the dismay of my family. Now I know how to do advanced things properly...but computers are very fragile and easy to break. This has to change for normal users, the Applet Tablet and Chrome OS are steps in that direction. People want stable machines that never break no matter what…

Sounds exactly like me. When I was 10 I dismantled my ZX81 to 'see how it worked' and broke it of course. I then got a ZX Spectrum to keep me from crying about it which I also ended up taking apart, but managed not to break.

I think I conditioned everyone in my family to be more afraid of letting me near electronic equipment with a screwdriver than the equipment itself.

Re: Computers shouldn't make people feel like idiots

#15

Post by dkimball »

One problem that I don't think the iPad's defenders are acknowledging is Joel Splosky's "Law of Leaky Abstractions" -- http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/LeakyAbstractions.htm... .

Of course, the ideal is to leak minimally; Apple has always been good at that, but very bad at allowing anyone past the abstraction in the event that it breaks down. I believe the analogy is "sports cars with their hoods welded shut."

Re: Computers shouldn't make people feel like idiots

#16

Post by themanr »

I don't think many people who have grown up using computers struggle with basic file system concepts, installing programs or using office applications. Maybe we have reached the stage where a basic understanding of computing, along with basic numeracy and literacy, is necessary to function in modern society?

Re: Computers shouldn't make people feel like idiots

#18

Post by [deleted] »

themanr wrote: post #16

I don't think many people who have grown up using computers struggle with basic file system concepts, installing programs or using office applications. Maybe we have reached the stage where a basic understanding of computing, along with basic numeracy and literacy, is necessary to function in modern society?

[deleted]

Re: Computers shouldn't make people feel like idiots

#19

Post by glhaynes »

themanr wrote: post #16

I don't think many people who have grown up using computers struggle with basic file system concepts, installing programs or using office applications. Maybe we have reached the stage where a basic understanding of computing, along with basic numeracy and literacy, is necessary to function in modern society?

I don't find this to be the case. Very very few non-techy people I know (young or old) have a decent grasp of the file system, enough to have any confidence in using it beyond dumping a few files into a folder, if even that. People who use computers all day long in an office setting have issues with it. Kids who use "Internet stuff" all day have issues, too -- because they never have to deal with it, normally.

Re: Computers shouldn't make people feel like idiots

#20

Post by GHFigs »

willNotCompile wrote: post #6

Somehow I don't think that learning how to operate a unique proprietary user interface(iPad) will help people to operate a real desktop computer. While it may temporary help to boost users self confidence in using a computer it will only serve as a fallback after the inevetable frustrations with a full UI. What is realy apsent from the mind of older generations is the idea that computers are just tools, albeit imensl…

A person is entirely capable of learning and mastering more than one interface. All that's required is the ability to build cognitive model of how the thing works that remains coherent as they use it. Humans are actually quite adept at learning new things,, and the tendency to assume that familiarity is a necessity is one of the things that has caused interfaces to stagnate.

What is telling is that for as long as we've had the familiar "full UI" of a "real desktop", many intelligent and motivated people still struggle with many of the conventions. Have you ever marveled at the fact that most desktop software in 2010 still defaults to destroying your work? And if you do want to keep your work, it insists that you give it a name, a name which must be unique and must not contain certain characters that the computer is entirely capable of understanding, and then it asks that you choose where in some invisible hierarchy you want to keep it (even though the answer in almost every case is is "where I can find it again"). All of this complicates something that might as well be done with pen and paper.

These are things that everyone who uses a desktop interface has to get used to, and there are some good reasons that they are the way they are, but they aren't necessary things for the task. It is possible to safely shed all of these conventions and end up with something that still gets the job done, possibly better than the traditional desktop way.

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