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Ask HN: Do you use an old or 'unfashionable' programming language?

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Re: Ask HN: Do you use an old or 'unfashionable' programming language?

#181

Using an 'unfashionable' language is similar to other areas in life where one rejects mainstream or too modern things for obvious reasons: - Be different. - Use something which is extraordinarily suited or especially made for your task at hand (in other words: do not compromise). - Maturity and stability is great. Please add more. The analogies are manifold. I really like modern re-implementations of well proven lang…

As someone fairly new to programming I don't understand what makes modern implementation of Lisp like Clojure better than its ancestor. I like Scheme because it's ridiculously flexible. You can implement as many libraries of your own as you want with Scheme which I doubt can easily be done in something like C++. To me Clojure is an overdesigned and rigid version of Lisp. Why is that considered good? Since I am new to all this I might be missing something so I'd love if someone could ELI5 it to me. Thanks.

Re: Ask HN: Do you use an old or 'unfashionable' programming language?

#182
I'm surprised you didn't mentioned Fortran as i don't consider it an "unfashionable" language but it's old and still used a lot in scientific work for Maths and Physics areas.

The biggest reason is the performance, portability and the code already written some time ago.

Re: Ask HN: Do you use an old or 'unfashionable' programming language?

#183
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too love bash. It's always there. It has no dependencies. It works.

It has a dependency on the bash runtime. And coreutils. And often moreutils, or various others.

Often with better performance than Python or Perl

Re: Ask HN: Do you use an old or 'unfashionable' programming language?

#184
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delphi is excellent!

I used to program in Delphi between 1997-1999 and after that I couldn't get even close in terms of productivity with Java. It wasn't the language though, the strongest thing about the Delphi environment was that it was truly comprehensive and you'd just go in and implement your business logic.

Same here. Funny how, 15 years later, there still isn't a competing language/UI builder that can measure up. Xcode + Interface Builder, for example, is a joke compared to Delphi. The first time I used IB, I remember being horrified by how IB requires you to "connect" UI elements to variables, and how it can't even create those variables for you, let alone allow you to add event handlers.

Re: Ask HN: Do you use an old or 'unfashionable' programming language?

#187
I worked a lot on a legacy system developed in Progress ABL (formerly unknown as Progress 4GL). I am still working on that system, but I am mostly an analyst now and don't really write code (only short scripts to extract data).

We still use it because a core application has been developed in it for the last 20 years, and replacing it with something else is currently unfeasible.

It's a sort of PL/SQL for a non-relational DBMS. It recently (last 5 years?) got OO extension - the product is still used/mantained/extended.

To be honest, I doubt that "we could learn" much from it. I mean "RDBMS were not just a fad, after all" is not something we need to learn, right? (and no, it's not part of the NOSQL family, it is just old and odd). Some other lessons we don't really need to learn now are, off the top of my head:

- I think we don't really need foreign keys, folks

- What about something like a virtual table that only exists in memory but which allows you to optionally revert any changes on it by doing a rollback? (except that if you do that you also rollback any changes to the real tables, of course)

- Views are just a passing fad, also, foreign keys are for sissies - data integrity is done in your application.

- You know what? we could do query optimization at compile time instead of at runtime, it will be easier for us to write the query planner, even if this also mean that if you add an index later you have to recompile everything.

- You keep harping on this concept of foreign keys. Listen, just use a strict name convention for fields and things will sort fall in piec... I mean in place by themselves.

- Function/Procedure signatures are not really hard enforced so... if you have a function with 23 parameters and you call it with 22 (or 24) it will bomb at runtime because the compiler will not warn you.

- Speaking of signatures... we all know that dates are really an epoch plus a real, no? So I think it's sorta ok if you pass a number to a procedure that has a date as input parameter...

Some of the points mentioned above might have been mitigated in the more current version (or will be in the next one) except for the foreign indexes because those will stay like that forever (officially declared in their roadmap 2 months ago).

Re: Ask HN: Do you use an old or 'unfashionable' programming language?

#188

My dad uses and has used BASIC. He's not a teacher, nor a hobbyist. He writes bank software. In BASIC. For forty years. At the same company. UBS, Bank of China, and other names all run this massive million(s)-line BASIC codebase, that he almost singlehandedly wrote, on minicomputers[1] powered by OpenVMS. With it, according to my father, they process billion dollars worth of transactions and other facets of their bus…

Man, someone should just build an open source clone of HP's platform and keep the dream alive.

If only there were a drifting entrepreneur nearby interested in a doting customer base of Swiss banks wrapped up in a bow....

Re: Ask HN: Do you use an old or 'unfashionable' programming language?

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd certainly be interesting to relate a multi-decade software project from the outside :-) I will have to talk to my father about this... and explain why folks on the internet must hear his stories. In the interim, would anyone happen to have an example of a good secondhand account of a software project? A basis or, at the least, an inspiration for how to proceed.

Joe Armstrong's paper on the history of Erlang (of which he was one of the authors) is superb (though it's less about corporate culture than about the language): http://cobweb.cs.uga.edu/~maria/classes/4500-Spring-2010/pap... There's The Mythical Man-Month: http://www.amazon.com/The-Mythical-Man-Month-Engineering-Ann... Showstopper, the book about the development of Windows NT, is great: http://www.amazon.com/Show-St…

Thank you kindly. I knew about the mythical month, but the others are completely new to me.

Re: Ask HN: Do you use an old or 'unfashionable' programming language?

#190
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to program in Delphi between 1997-1999 and after that I couldn't get even close in terms of productivity with Java. It wasn't the language though, the strongest thing about the Delphi environment was that it was truly comprehensive and you'd just go in and implement your business logic.

Same here. Funny how, 15 years later, there still isn't a competing language/UI builder that can measure up. Xcode + Interface Builder, for example, is a joke compared to Delphi. The first time I used IB, I remember being horrified by how IB requires you to "connect" UI elements to variables, and how it can't even create those variables for you, let alone allow you to add event handlers.

I was so pleased when I could write my Delphi code on iOS/osx and android as well and could abandon the horribleness that is IB.
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