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Coding as a Career Isn't Right for Me

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Re: Coding as a Career Isn't Right for Me

#51

Post by hanniabu »

sly_foxx wrote: post #26

$65k in student loans to learn programming? The author is clearly an idiot. Programming can be learned from home for next to nothing, because you have all the tools you need there. It's not like you're a surgeon and you're working with expensive/complex equipment.

I graduated with a degree in mechanical engineering and decided to quit my job to learn programming at home. Took me a year to get to the point where I'm comfortable and know my way around.

However, just because I taught myself doesn't mean that it was free. I had a year of lost wages which is about 65K, so all in all it costed about the same amount for me.

Re: Coding as a Career Isn't Right for Me

#53

Post by krapp »

moron4hire wrote: post #21
grillvogel wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no one deserves anything

Everyone deserves everything. We live in a society that is capable of creating a post-scarcity economy (and in many cases, such as media and software, has) yet is putting itself through ever more convoluted contortions to make sure poor people don't get to have anything. Eff. That. Noise. Work is not a moral imperative.

>We live in a society that is capable of creating a post-scarcity economy (and in many cases, such as media and software, has)

Media and software are not examples of post-scarcity economy. They require hardware, which requires infrastructure, which runs on the expenditure of fuel and calories, and is built oftentimes with slave labor. The music needs to be composed, the movies need to be filmed, the games need to be designed. Storage media needs to be replaced. Programmers need to be educated generation after generation, and then everything rewritten in new languages when no one cares about the old ones. Factories need to keep building new models and old models keep filling landfills. The digital world is very much tied to scarcity of resources. Every bit flipped contributes to the inevitable heat death of the universe.

Re: Coding as a Career Isn't Right for Me

#54

Post by pcurve »

staunch wrote: post #38

If programmers made twice as much money, it would be such a great job. And yet salaries have been relatively flat for over a decade (adjusted for inflation). Something is wrong that salaries never seem to rise with demand in Silicon Valley. We know there was a secret deal to help suppress wages at one point, but it's not obvious why it's been so successful. Is it new graduates, immigration abuse, internationalization…

Programmers are generally very well paid in the U.S.

The issue is, they hit pay-ceiling very quick, unless they go into management position. And really, who wants to be an IT manager? It's probably the second worst job in IT after IT project manager. chuckles

A 30 year old sr. software engineer will be paid not much less than a 40 year old one, even if 40 year old is much more talented, and deserves to get paid twice as much.

I suppose the same issue exists for pharmacists. Out of school, you're expected to make $110k; pretty much the same exact salary as RPh with 20 years of experience.

Re: Coding as a Career Isn't Right for Me

#55

Post by xupybd »

Work is work. But you can learn to self motivate, and even learn to enjoy the boring bits. However if you think that it's out of your control, what you enjoy and what bores you, it can be hard to improve your enjoyment.

Re: Coding as a Career Isn't Right for Me

#56

Post by jacalata »

sf_rob wrote: post #44
FreedomToCreate wrote: post #36

Wonder what this guy would say to the countless millions who toil away in factories, big box retail, and accounting offices. None of these people do this for the love of the job. They do it because it needs to be done and they get paid for it. I wouldn't be so critical of your feelings but you whine about how society didn't let you do what you want to do on your terms. Change your circumstances. No one is just given…

I like your post and think it's valid, but I would say that coding in high school/college doesn't prepare you for the real world at all. In high school I was hacking on silly personal projects. In college I was solving cool algorithms, puzzles, and games. But in the real world most programming roles are pretty menial / not a super exciting domain / consist largely of process, code reviews, QA, debugging.

My friend has a HR degree where she got to study psychology and organizational principles and how to motivate people and run a business, and now she does paperwork all day managing employee sick time and vacation time and making sure all their certifications are up to date. I'd be surprised if any degree fully prepares students for just how much menial work they'll be doing, partly because those bits don't require a university course to learn.

Re: Coding as a Career Isn't Right for Me

#57

Post by sly_foxx »

hanniabu wrote: post #51
sly_foxx wrote: post #26

$65k in student loans to learn programming? The author is clearly an idiot. Programming can be learned from home for next to nothing, because you have all the tools you need there. It's not like you're a surgeon and you're working with expensive/complex equipment.

I graduated with a degree in mechanical engineering and decided to quit my job to learn programming at home. Took me a year to get to the point where I'm comfortable and know my way around. However, just because I taught myself doesn't mean that it was free. I had a year of lost wages which is about 65K, so all in all it costed about the same amount for me.

He had 4 years of lost wages + $65k in debt. When you're in college, you don't work. So, again, he's in much worse situation than someone who learns programming at home in 1 year.

Re: Coding as a Career Isn't Right for Me

#58

Post by Matachines »

staunch wrote: post #38

If programmers made twice as much money, it would be such a great job. And yet salaries have been relatively flat for over a decade (adjusted for inflation). Something is wrong that salaries never seem to rise with demand in Silicon Valley. We know there was a secret deal to help suppress wages at one point, but it's not obvious why it's been so successful. Is it new graduates, immigration abuse, internationalization…

Most programmers are happy enough to make their current salary and many work for less. Don't think it's gonna increase any time soon.

Re: Coding as a Career Isn't Right for Me

#59

Post by gravypod »

jmspring wrote: post #17
grillvogel wrote: post #13

the entitlement is strong with this one

Depending where, that "cabin in the woods" doesn't come cheap. And the time and effort needed to make a decent fraction of what one does "coding" in jobs around cheap locations is going to take many years of hard work.

Not if you buy the land at a tax sale, built it yourself, and live with bare essentials.

Lets say there are two people who want a home, one person builds theirs and the other buys theirs via a loan.

Both are looking for a $200,000 price range. The one who is buying a prebuilt home is going for a 30 year fixed rate mortgage.

* Solar Panels - $1,000

* Building Materials - $10,000

* Land - $2,000

* Well Drilled On Property /w Electric Pump, Filter, and Tank - $10,000

* Backup Power Batteries - $1,000

* Composting Toilet, Sink, Kitchen Appliances (All top of the line) - $20,000 (You can save a LOT of money here by skimping on the stove and fridge)

* Nice HAM radio set - $1000

* Satellite internet hookup - $500

* Zoning, Permits, Safety inspections - $1,000

Total Approximate Cost: $46,500

This is with very heavy rounding upward. Granted, this home will be small, likely no basement, and two stories. But it will be very comfortable living if you build it yourself.

You will be able to maintain everything, no more rent, no more service fees, no more power/water bill.

So, just to give buying a home a better fighting chance, let's make this humble home a super humble home.

* Aerogel-Composed insilation: 40,000

* Super Efficient NAS/Server: 5,000

* Some more battery capacity: 5,000

* High efficiency HVAC system: 30,000

Added Cost: $80,000 Total Approximate Cost: $126,500

Now lets start going to where money can buy, but you just need a lot of patience.

* Why not launch a small satellite in geosynchronous orbit? $100,000

* More HAM equipment for tracking satellites. $5,000

* Underground bunker underneath your home. $60,000

Added Cost: $165,000 Total Approximate Cost: $291,500

Both where able to get into their homes within 2 months, both started out with what was probably going to need some work over time.

The home buyer paid $340,427 in total, along with extra taxes. The home builder got a $291,500 and did some really cool shit if you ask me.

Yes, I am exaggerating a little. But you get my point. You can always make your dreams come true.

Re: Coding as a Career Isn't Right for Me

#60

Post by nstart »

I almost cried while reading this. During that job, I made and shared two side projects for the first time in my life.

But the 9 to 5 hell was impossible to deal with.

Fast forward to now, I'm remotely working with a company that pays me a great salary. I live in South East Asia and that means my savings are fantastic. Bonus is that the company is amazing. Dreamt of joining it since 2012. But I digress.

Here's where I get to the point. Try and find this kind of remote work, and come live around here for a short while (Sri Lanka). Heck. I'd be happy to talk to you about it. Put it in perspective, with a salary of say 80k USD, you'll pay off your student loan in one year guaranteed if you live a little frugally. Hope this helps

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