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Entrepreneur porn is a dangerous fantasy

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Re: Entrepreneur porn is a dangerous fantasy

#161

Post by the_af »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #159
the_af wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without realizing that it's simply saying that there are diminishing returns above that point But I thought everyone got that point. It's not as if people thought every additional dollar brought them misery. People who quote this understand that you don't need this additional money, and that the effort/sacrifices to get it are not worth it.

>and that the effort/sacrifices to get it are not worth it. Not quite. Marginal utility means the increase in benefit from an extra unit of some value, is some percentage less than 100% of the benefit gained from the previous unit. Stated mathematically, its a logistic function.

Again, you're stating things people already know (maybe not in terms of marginal utility, but they do). You say you grew up poor, but the money you needed in order to be happy weren't millions or billions. It was a lot less. Beyond this, more money doesn't mean happiness, which is what people mean when they say it... but you already knew this, didn't you?

If the return in happiness/peace of mind you get beyond $75K (or whatever number) is close to nil, those all-nighters and cheap noodle lunches are simply not worth it by definition. Unless you enjoy living like that, of course, but the implication is that most startup founders don't, it's just stuff they do because they see the gold pot at the end.

Re: Entrepreneur porn is a dangerous fantasy

#162

Post by AndrewKemendo »

the_af wrote: post #161
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and that the effort/sacrifices to get it are not worth it. Not quite. Marginal utility means the increase in benefit from an extra unit of some value, is some percentage less than 100% of the benefit gained from the previous unit. Stated mathematically, its a logistic function.

Again, you're stating things people already know (maybe not in terms of marginal utility, but they do). You say you grew up poor, but the money you needed in order to be happy weren't millions or billions. It was a lot less. Beyond this, more money doesn't mean happiness, which is what people mean when they say it... but you already knew this, didn't you? If the return in happiness/peace of mind you get beyond $75K (…

Again, you're stating things people already know

I don't think that's true. I think a lot of people want to find a way to think that billionaires are worse off than someone making 75,000/year. They cite that study and incorrectly come to the conclusion that more money past 75,000 means increasing unhappiness under the "mo money mo problems" doctrine. People in this thread doing that in fact.

Your broader point though is uncontroversial that for the vast majority, working an extra hour per day for 100k more a year wouldn't be worth it.

I argue that's because the vast majority of people wouldn't know what to do with ungodly amounts of money, likely because they don't have ambitions that would require it, and thus see it as superfluous or as you state not worth the effort.

Most people, just want to play with their kids, take a vacation and zone out on netflix. That certainly doesn't take billions.

Re: Entrepreneur porn is a dangerous fantasy

#163

Post by AndrewKemendo »

dragonwriter wrote: post #160
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money won’t make you happy I have always hated this saying because it's worthless without the context of who is getting the money. I grew up poor - money definitely made us happy because we could afford to move out of my aunt or my grandmother's house. Everyone loves to cite the study that "above $75,000/year money doesn't make you happier" - without realizing that it's simply saying that there are diminishing return…

> Everyone loves to cite the study that "above $75,000/year money doesn't make you happier" - without realizing that it's simply saying that there are diminishing returns above that point (standard economic marginal utility concept), not that overall happiness goes down. No, the studies I've seen (though it was at around $200K, not $75K, in, IIRC, early-2000s) that there was no marginal utility above the stated point…

Can you find that study? I have only seen the one with the ~75k number.

Re: Entrepreneur porn is a dangerous fantasy

#164

Post by AndrewKemendo »

poof131 wrote: post #72
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's not in your blood to absolutely have to be an entrepreneur (or painter, writer, comedian, etc...) you probably shouldn't be one.

I don’t think this is helpful. There is no medical test for it being in your blood. This ends up being a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you quit, it wasn’t in your blood, if you succeed it was in your blood. Most entrepreneurs I’ve come across so far in SV have taken very little risk and come from rich, prestigious backgrounds. The ‘entrepreneurship porn’ of the amazing struggle tends to primarily be used to justify th…

I don't see how it's self fulfilling.

Also quitting doesn't necessarily mean it's not in your blood, it just means that particular project didn't work out and you cut your losses so you could do another one.

Re: Entrepreneur porn is a dangerous fantasy

#165

Post by rmc »

sliverstorm wrote: post #107
Retric wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft's early story looks a little different when you realize Bill Gate's mother just happens to know IBM's CEO.

Well, it isn't rags-to-riches but it's still very impressive. IBM's CEO knew a lot of people, not just Gate's mother.

IBM's CEO might know a lot of people. But a lot of software founders don't know IBM's CEO.

Re: Entrepreneur porn is a dangerous fantasy

#166

Post by cableshaft »

helpfulanon wrote: post #51
amorphid wrote: post #2

Can confirm. Tried startup. Worked hard. Ran out of money. Ended up homeless. It sucked.

Same here. Also would add a compounding series of negative results including depression, being almost shadow-banned from the business due to lack of optimism (no joke), then alcohol problems etc I'd take a bet there are many many others on HN that can attest to this outcome, but lurk due to shame or emotional pain. Losing everything because of misjudgment is not an easy thing to admit to publicly, especially in a com…

I've worked for two failed early startups. Gained a lot of knowledge in a short period of time, wore a lot of hats, did work I was passionate about, but also stressed out about making the right decisions or the company could shut down (the final decisions were made by the management, but I had influence over their decisions), extremely long hours, no social life, rapidly deteriorating health, screwed up my finances, etc.

But I'm a few years away from it now, and I don't mind admitting it. The startups failed for reasons outside of me for the most part (although it feels a little funny knowing you're at least partially responsible for a company losing two million dollars), and I don't regret having that experience.

If anything, working for a corporation again and working on stuff I'm not too passionate about makes me itch for going back to a small company again, but I still need the stability to get my finances back in order and start losing the weight I put on during that time, plus I have a social life now, which is hard to give all that up for someone else's 'grand vision'.

As for misjudgment, from my experience, a lot of the "bad decisions" made in those startups actually made sense at the time and with the information available at the time of the decision. It was only with the benefit of hindsight and perspective that you can see why ultimately they were bad decisions.

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