321–330 of 365 posts
Let's see.. in the 20 odd years here in Chicago, the sum of my police interactions are: Hit by a white shirt (supervisor) who came out of an alley on clark st while in a bike lane - somehow my fault, detained. Hit on foot, by a car with no lights on in a residential neighborhood while crossing at a crosswalk - somehow my fault for being outside while there was "a suspect being hunted" Watching officers on foot in 7-1…
I have to say America just seems like a dreadful mess.
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If you are white and in the wrong place, the police may approach you and tell you where you ought to be and how to get there. If you're white in white Chicago, police pretty much don't exist. They're who you call before your insurance company whenever a property crime occurs, and that's only because your insurer makes you. You can compare maps at http://gis.chicagopolice.org/clearmap_crime_sums/startpage.h... and htt…
It's hard to think of a neighborhood within the limits of the city of Chicago where you could be "out of place" for being black or hispanic, since we have huge black and hispanic populations. Beverly, maybe? But that seems like an exception that proves the rule, since Beverly is effectively a south suburb. I do not at all doubt that if you are an "urban" looking black person wandering around a suburb like Kenilworth…
Though now that I think of it, maybe it was both.
And thinking about the other thing, I don't think I have ever seen a potential "just for being black" stop anywhere south of Belmont, either. So I guess that can't be pinned on CPD. Maybe the commercial centers in Rosemont, near O'Hare? Not sure if that's in the official city limits or not.
It is worthwhile to note that you might be black and "out of place" in your own neighborhood if you are outside in your own yard with a camera recording while the police are doing something.
I grew up in an Asian country where I have seen police corruption first hand more than once and I always wished my country had better educated and morally strong individuals who would protect the weaker sections of the society instead of siding with rich/powerful people even if they are criminals. I always wished like in the west police would enforce the law regardless of the status of that individual and that police…
Police in the US are very much not like police in other Anglo countries; they are much more adversarial. Not to say the other police are perfect, but it seems much worse in the US. Example: I'm from Australia, and was recounting a story here on HN about how I don't like that subtle power play when police pull you over and talk down to you in the car. So I get out (I'm very tall) and wait for them in a friendly manner…
I don't know, but I suspect that Australians are much less likely to shoot at or otherwise attack police officers...
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>This is absolutely not true. Have you ever lived in an inner city? Yes some people are fighting with each other but if you act respectfully, you'll be left alone. I've lived in downtown areas of Chicago and DC, but never what people mean when they say "inner city" (i.e. ghetto). They won't leave you alone. They'll rob you or break into your car. Criminals murder and steal from the people who live there at alarming r…
> They won't leave you alone. They'll rob you or break into your car. No "they" won't. Sorry your friend's car got broken into but that happens everywhere, not just the inner city. > 85% people have healthcare coverage. Pretty sure it's not the middle class that's not insured. Also rent prices absolutely are a poor problem. That's what gentrification is all about.
I moved to Brooklyn from Texas last June. Moved to a part of Crown Heights that my coworkers said was probably fine. Kind of on the edge of where things get genuinely sketchy.
Yes, I'm from Texas, and I'm white. My GF says I'm the whitest person she's ever dated by far. Not sure what that means, but apparently I stick out like a sore thumb of white-ness. Maybe that's some of it. I don't know.
But the guys at the corner grocery/deli/convenience stores wouldn't sell anything to me. Not even water. There were a lot of gunshots on the block in the evenings. I really hated walking home after working late--and it being a startup I was working for, that was almost every night.
At the end of my second week there, I was up on the roof of the building having a smoke (because I was tired of being harassed by everyone in the neighborhood when I would go smoke out on the stoop, and I just wanted to smoke a damn smoke without having to talk or listen to anyone) a couple of cops walked up to a guy (guess what color his skin was), chatted with him for a minute or so and then shot him. Twice in the torso, and then after he was on the ground, once in the face. Right in front of my place. When the crime report got to the news, it was literally my address they used when they said, "A man was shot last night just outside #xxx Troy Ave. in Crown Heights"
That, at least somewhat understandably, pissed the neighborhood off. For a week after that, thugs were stabbing people coming off the 4 train at Franklin during rush hour. Just stabbing white people. Not even mugging them. I was getting off two stops from there and ubering home for the remaining week I lived there before I moved to a different place.
A place that has about the same racial makeup. I'm still in the minority by a long shot. But the culture is entirely different, and a much happier place. A mere 2.8 miles from where I was living. NYC is such a weird place.
I am not a jerk to anyone, and I'm not the racist you might think I am because I'm from Texas. I had a remarkably multi-cultural upbringing, considering where I grew up. But the reality is that there are places where simply being white can get you in trouble.
Please understand I'm not complaining about this. The fact of the matter is that there are far fewer places in this country where being white can get you in trouble than there are places where being black can get you in trouble. I get that, and I'm not all that upset about it. Except for the cops shooting the guy for apparently no reason. That part does upset me.
My point is that you are simply wrong with your assertions that all you have to do is "respect the neighborhood" or whatever. That's bad advice for very many people.
We need badge-equivalent cameras. What I mean is that we need to make cameras work the same way as badges and uniforms, in the sense that you just can't do police work if you don't have a working camera. A working camera has a red light on it which means that it is currently streaming (possibly buffering if temporarily out of wireless range). The police don't have to record anything, they just need to stream somewher…
you just can't do police work if you don't have a working camera This is already becoming the policy in many forward thinking agencies. they just need to stream somewhere with associated meta data There are real challenges, both technical and practical. Technically, you've got to worry about connectivity and battery life. Practically, somebody has to pay for it all! There's also many genuine use cases for turning off…
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> They won't leave you alone. They'll rob you or break into your car. No "they" won't. Sorry your friend's car got broken into but that happens everywhere, not just the inner city. > 85% people have healthcare coverage. Pretty sure it's not the middle class that's not insured. Also rent prices absolutely are a poor problem. That's what gentrification is all about.
Your whole series of comments in this topic seem to be along the lines of, "Don't be a dick and nothing bad will happen to you." Maybe that's been your experience, and I'm not going to call you a liar. But that's simply not the case for everyone. I moved to Brooklyn from Texas last June. Moved to a part of Crown Heights that my coworkers said was probably fine. Kind of on the edge of where things get genuinely sketch…
That being said, I have experienced something like the racial tension you say happened after that incident. It was scary but in the end I was safe partially because I made the time to get to know the people who lived around me. Not even hanging out get to know, just nod when you walk by.
If you're a good member of the community, the community will work to protect you if it can. You absolutely do need to keep your wits about you and be street safe though. I admit that's definitely not for everyone.
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My experience definitely does not match yours, poor people are just like everyone else and I actually find the communities in areas like that to be MUCH stronger if you take the time to get to know people.
I agree with you; I think there are some amazing strong communities all across the poorer areas of Chicago. But there are also people who will fuck with you there. The communities don't support them; in fact, on the west side (where I live), they put up signs on every block saying they want to chase those people away. Ask people who bike from the loop to Oak Park if they've ever been fucked with in Lawndale. I have a…
interesting that this is the same social dynamic that police create in less poor neighborhoods, almost as if the poorer areas were filling some sort of tribal, no-outsiders-aloud enforcement role that the police generally fill, but have neglected these areas.
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I have to say America just seems like a dreadful mess.
The thing to keep in mind is that America isn't as homogeneous as a European country, it's as diverse as the entire European continent. Would you say that Denmark is a dreadful mess because of the crime rate in Serbia? Probably not.
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I'm moving to Chicago in a few months. Are there certain neighborhoods that should be avoided on the basis of corrupt police activity? I wonder because I could see neighborhoods that are relatively safe in terms of civilian crime, but cops posted in that area might have nothing better to do than mess with its inhabitants.
Lifelong Chicagoan here. I've never, ever had these issues and all my run-ins with cops have been fairly uneventful, if not pleasant. Chicago cops have better things to do than give traffic tickets usually and the last time I got pulled over (blew through red from a fast yellow) and I was just let go with a warning. Recently, there is a mentally unstable person in my neighborhood and he decided to sit on my porch and…