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MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

tech.mit.edu

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Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#61

Post by ucsdrake »

dhimes wrote: post #31
gravypod wrote: post #4

The only point of a modern day university is that they are (a) exclusive, and (b) "guarantee" that students "know" what they are "taught". That's at least what people who hire think. I remember someone saying "It wouldn't matter if MIT only taught basket weaving as long as they still had such a thorough selection process". This holds true here. People only care about the pedigree of your degree, it's substance comes…

"guarantee" that students "know" what they are "taught" That used to be the case, but now corporations require you to pass their own exam before they hire you. Let that sink in a moment. No longer are the universities taken at their word about their product. For some of you it has never been any different, but this change came about more or less when I was teaching at university/college. Some of us saw this as a quit…

> That used to be the case, but now corporations require you to pass their own exam before they hire you.

You mean an ... interview?!

Ok, that was purposely obtuse, but I don't see how an extension of a company's interview process (ensuring, through their own testing, that candidates meet the proper qualifications without school bias) is a bad thing. Or how it signals an 'inevitable disruption of modern higher ed'. Would you mind expanding on that a bit?

To me, that helps keep schools honest and continuously adapting their curriculum's, while ensure that the best candidate gets the position, regardless of the institution they attended.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#62

Post by fokov »

Pharaoh2 wrote: post #27
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #19

We don't need a "new" university system. We need to update our expectation about higher education and the work force. Let's start but dropping our mantra that everyone should go to college. Here's another: Maybe not everyone should even go to high school.

But everyone should go to high school. Hell, if you aren't going to college I do hope there is an extended high school. I don't care if its taxpayer sponsored but even high school is not enough to foster a critical thinking process. I picked that up somewhere between high school and end of college. Some people may be faster than me but that skill is really important. Either that, or you don't get to vote. Edit: The l…

In my opinion, the problem with high school is due to the large amount of wasted time. So many classes had dozens of days if not the large majority of the time spent on nothing or busy work. Busy work is a large part of bureaucratic organizations where most of the cogs will end up, but it shouldn't be the goal.

I think many high school courses could be pushed down into earlier education and a great deal of knowledge a university provides could be offered there.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#63

Post by NovaS1X »

Pharaoh2 wrote: post #27
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #19

We don't need a "new" university system. We need to update our expectation about higher education and the work force. Let's start but dropping our mantra that everyone should go to college. Here's another: Maybe not everyone should even go to high school.

But everyone should go to high school. Hell, if you aren't going to college I do hope there is an extended high school. I don't care if its taxpayer sponsored but even high school is not enough to foster a critical thinking process. I picked that up somewhere between high school and end of college. Some people may be faster than me but that skill is really important. Either that, or you don't get to vote. Edit: The l…

I didn't finish high school nor did I go to college or university. I'm now a systems engineer. Should I not be able to vote?

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#64

Post by _jeans »

gravypod wrote: post #4

The only point of a modern day university is that they are (a) exclusive, and (b) "guarantee" that students "know" what they are "taught". That's at least what people who hire think. I remember someone saying "It wouldn't matter if MIT only taught basket weaving as long as they still had such a thorough selection process". This holds true here. People only care about the pedigree of your degree, it's substance comes…

Paul Graham said something similar in his essay How to Start a Startup[0], though he's referring to how driven these students are to succeed, and being surrounded by like-minded people.

> It's no coincidence that startups start around universities, because that's where smart people meet. It's not what people learn in classes at MIT and Stanford that has made technology companies spring up around them. They could sing campfire songs in the classes so long as admissions worked the same.

[0] http://www.paulgraham.com/start.html

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#65

Post by fao_ »

bobby_9x wrote: post #56

The current system was created for a reason: because for most people, it works. I ran a language learning group for a couple of years and we tried many different styles of learning. With no structure, most people flounder. Unless you already learned the material and just need it for review, it really doesn't work well. The best was complete structure: tests, lesson plans, and homework. Most people are passive. They w…

> With no structure, most people flounder.

I find the opposite -- it is impossible for me to get any kind of complex learning done while I am on a structured course. It's telling that I learned more in three weeks of being ill and choosing to passively read books on mathematics (While coughing my guts up, of course), than I did actively participating in a course. (The only reason I am participating in the course is because I need a bit of paper that says I can do foo. A few people working in foo field have said I am at their level, it's just mindless inane hoop-jumping.)

> Most people are passive. They want a teacher to lead them and guide them through the learning process.

Exactly, but IMO that is the fault of the schooling system itself. They've never had to learn anything themselves, because everything they know has been spoon-fed to them by their teachers. If we had a better (Differently structured) education system, then this would not be necessary.

Although I do not see much hope for this happening, both Russell and Whitehead made attempts to improve the learning systems in the UK, neither prevailed.

Apologies if this came across as a rant.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#66

Post by MisterBastahrd »

skizm wrote: post #3
TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #2

Sounds like a hacker house. Why call it a university if it doesn't grant degrees?

Honestly it probably makes it more acceptable to the "everyone needs to go to college" crowd. Trade schools have been around for a while, but for some reason people think you need a "university degree" to get anywhere. I assume they are trying to bridge that mental gap by using similar language to that of traditional colleges / universities. Also "trade schools" and / or specialty schools rarely have the same social…

This isn't even a trade school. Trade schools definitely have classes and lectures.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#67

Post by Pharaoh2 »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #52
Pharaoh2 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But everyone should go to high school. Hell, if you aren't going to college I do hope there is an extended high school. I don't care if its taxpayer sponsored but even high school is not enough to foster a critical thinking process. I picked that up somewhere between high school and end of college. Some people may be faster than me but that skill is really important. Either that, or you don't get to vote. Edit: The l…

Why do you think the only environment people can learn these skills is sitting at a desk for extended periods of time?

I don't know what you did in your college, but I wasn't sitting at my desk for extended period of time.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#68

Post by pnut »

Pharaoh2 wrote: post #27
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #19

We don't need a "new" university system. We need to update our expectation about higher education and the work force. Let's start but dropping our mantra that everyone should go to college. Here's another: Maybe not everyone should even go to high school.

But everyone should go to high school. Hell, if you aren't going to college I do hope there is an extended high school. I don't care if its taxpayer sponsored but even high school is not enough to foster a critical thinking process. I picked that up somewhere between high school and end of college. Some people may be faster than me but that skill is really important. Either that, or you don't get to vote. Edit: The l…

The only constitutional voting test is, are you a citizen of voting age, who is not a felon?

I would rather see that test applied as a prerequisite to run for public office.

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#69

Post by digikata »

It would be interesting to compose your own 'major' program out of smaller granularity subject modules. So e.g. if one were interested in majoring in robotics, you could assemble a study program of something like basic CS, basic MechE, basic EE, then stack some other intermediate level subjects modules on top... Controls, Visual processing, etc...

Re: MIT dean to start new university: “No majors, no lectures, no classrooms”

#70

Post by such_a_casual »

Pharaoh2 wrote: post #27
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #19

We don't need a "new" university system. We need to update our expectation about higher education and the work force. Let's start but dropping our mantra that everyone should go to college. Here's another: Maybe not everyone should even go to high school.

But everyone should go to high school. Hell, if you aren't going to college I do hope there is an extended high school. I don't care if its taxpayer sponsored but even high school is not enough to foster a critical thinking process. I picked that up somewhere between high school and end of college. Some people may be faster than me but that skill is really important. Either that, or you don't get to vote. Edit: The l…

>Either that, or you don't get to vote.

What? Graduating from school (highschool or university) is about learning how to follow directions and play the game. To say that a degree somehow guarantees that a person knows how to think critically is ludicrous.

But you're not even making such a modest claim, you're actually claiming that it is the only way to assure people can think critically (even though it's not even a valid way to begin with). Some of us can think critically as children. Do you honestly believe just because you couldn't think critically until you were an adult, that means that hundreds of millions of people that you've never met should be forced into the same fruitless, and arbitrary indoctrination you had to undergo to become adequate in your own eyes?

Are you aware of how absolutely stupid school seems to people who are really, really smart? http://www.lambdassociates.org/blog/bipolar.htm

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