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Jonathan Blow's new game, The Witness, is out

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Re: Jonathan Blow's new game, The Witness, is out

#151

Post by clentaminator »

azzafazza wrote: post #52
amichail wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it like those ill-defined puzzles where you need to say what number comes next? Any number can come next.

Pretty much this. It isn't a very good game. It's padded to kingdom come, there is a lack of motivation to keep going and no music kills any atmosphere it might potentially create.

Nothing rude meant by this (honestly), but if the experience of discovering the island, finding and completing the puzzles itself isn't motivating enough then perhaps it's just not the game for you?

I understand your point about filler, but the puzzles are the game, and if you're enjoying them then it probably doesn't come across as filler, just more to get stuck in with (though I do wonder whether so many slight variations on a theme are required in certain areas).

Hyped it may be, but that doesn't mean that you absolutely have to enjoy it at all costs. There are other games, and other developers :)

Re: Jonathan Blow's new game, The Witness, is out

#152

Post by lowmagnet »

mwill wrote: post #77
amichail wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it like those ill-defined puzzles where you need to say what number comes next? Any number can come next.

I've solved ~300 puzzles (out of 600) but am able to trigger the ending, so I am finished but not 100% completed yet. I haven't found ANY puzzles where I feel like you're guessing at the solution. Every puzzle I've solved has had well defined rules. I don't want to give too much away, but broadly speaking there are two types of puzzles: Those that rely on the symbols, where whats on the screen in front of you is all…

I've encountered one audio-based puzzle so far, and if I was listening to music, this would have been frustrating.

Though, I have to admit, I like giving this game my full attention. I don't mind the lack of music as the environmental audio fits so well in the "whole picture" of the game.

Re: Jonathan Blow's new game, The Witness, is out

#153

Post by lkozma »

amichail wrote: post #50
hbex5 wrote: post #45

And it is wonderful . It's one of those games that manages to push buttons in your brain you never knew you had, and make you feel like a genius when something finally clicks. And it does all this without ever needing to explain anything. Jonathan Blow's enigma variations. A meandering meditation on the means by which humans gain knowledge and understanding of the world, by standing on the shoulders of a hacking mini…

Isn't it like those ill-defined puzzles where you need to say what number comes next? Any number can come next.

I think it is a common misconception that in the kind of puzzles you mention any number can come next in an equally meaningful way.

There are well-defined (mathematically) and natural ways in which 6 is a better continuation to 1,2,3,4,5,... than say 15 or whatever else.

Re: Jonathan Blow's new game, The Witness, is out

#154

Post by lowmagnet »

on_and_off wrote: post #118
AsyncAwait wrote: post #95

I like the potential of the game, but sadly it did not meet my expectations. I saw it as a Myst-style game, where you have puzzles, but you also have a lot of interactive environment around you to explore. Here, I was getting taken it by a lot of beautiful scenarios in the distance, only to realise that there is nothing to do there, but solve more panels. It simply feels like this beautiful island is going to waste,…

two hours or so into it so far, so I don't have an overview of the whole game. The puzzles so far have rarely asked for more than 10 seconds to find a solution. Navigating the island does feel like an artificial overgame at the moment. Some of the puzzles have caused changes in the 3D world but in very small ways. I guess that things are going to get more complex soon though.

Some of the puzzles hide elements, and block elements. Also, the environments themselves eventually give way to 'meta-puzzles' on a larger scale.

Re: Jonathan Blow's new game, The Witness, is out

#155

Post by seivan »

rotw wrote: post #98
seivan wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fish also stole much of his stuff, so you can't expect him to steal twice as he has eyes on him this time. http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/evidence-that-phil-fish-st... I actually paid for Fez, apart from its little gimmick and art work, it wasn't really much. Never finished it even, and I finished Assassins Creed 1 ;-) Blow just seems genuinely good at writing games/software and creating puzzles, but even better a…

Your assertion that he "stole" Fez is really not supported by the purported evidence you linked. And you totally missed the point of Fez if you think it only has the 2.5D and artwork going for it.

I as a consumer missed the point of the game by not being enticing enough for me to finish it so I could get it, apart from its special 3D and artwork, yes.

I am not saying he Stole Fez, I am saying he seems to have mistreated people who worked on it with him. In the end, Blow is a force of nature, Fish was lucky to have someone code the engine for him, period. Look through the videos on Jai, there is some good stuff there that's not related to games in general.

Re: Jonathan Blow's new game, The Witness, is out

#156

Post by yoklov »

muraiki wrote: post #101

One thing to note is that some of the optional puzzles are likely to be unsolvable by colorblind and hearing impaired players: http://kotaku.com/colorblind-and-hearing-impaired-players-wo... As someone who is colorblind, I've been happy to see many games come out with options to enable filters for one or more types of colorblindness. It's disappointing that such a feature isn't present in this game.

Yeah this is pretty unfortunate.

Sadly, having played through the puzzles that involve color, it's not superficial at all. The puzzles are fundamentally about how colors work and combine. There isn't an obvious way to make a colorblind friendly version...

Re: Jonathan Blow's new game, The Witness, is out

#157

Post by mmozeiko »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #95

I like the potential of the game, but sadly it did not meet my expectations. I saw it as a Myst-style game, where you have puzzles, but you also have a lot of interactive environment around you to explore. Here, I was getting taken it by a lot of beautiful scenarios in the distance, only to realise that there is nothing to do there, but solve more panels. It simply feels like this beautiful island is going to waste,…

Oh, but there are more puzzles to do, it isn't just about panels. Keep looking, those puzzles are everywhere.

Re: Jonathan Blow's new game, The Witness, is out

#158

Post by nwhitehead »

lkozma wrote: post #153
amichail wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it like those ill-defined puzzles where you need to say what number comes next? Any number can come next.

I think it is a common misconception that in the kind of puzzles you mention any number can come next in an equally meaningful way. There are well-defined (mathematically) and natural ways in which 6 is a better continuation to 1,2,3,4,5,... than say 15 or whatever else.

What's wrong with sequence A096774 (numbers with 9*10^n+7 prime)? Why is sequence A000027 (numbers starting at 1 increasing by 1 each time) better? Because it comes earlier in the encyclopedia of sequences?

Re: Jonathan Blow's new game, The Witness, is out

#159

Post by gknoy »

eamsen wrote: post #71
hoorayimhelping wrote: post #61

> The bulk of the game feels like taking an IQ test. This is from a negative (but helpful) review of this game and it echoes exactly how I felt about playing Braid. His games feel like they're constructed so everyone will admire the genius of the creator for thinking up these kinds of interesting puzzles. And if the player ends up enjoying the game while they're admiring its creator, well that's an added benefit I gu…

I've tried hard to like Braid despite it being a platform game (Flashback (1992) is the only game in that genre that I've enjoyed so far). It's gorgeous, clever and polished, yet it felt pretentious to the point where it would distract from the beauty of the game. And I didn't know anything about the creator of the game before trying, so that couldn't have been personal bias (not implying that would have been the cas…

I find it interesting that you felt it was pretentious. What made it feel that way to you? I ask, because I never felt like that. I felt curiosity about what the Real Plot was about, I felt challenged (and frustrated) by the puzzles, and really enjoyed the art and music style.

It felt like each mechanic was introduced once I'd mastered the previous ones, and other puzzles made it worthwhile to replay things once I had already passed a level. To me, it felt like it did for Time what Portal did for space -- made me think about interactions in a new way. It didn't feel like it was trying to impress me, or wow me with the creator's brilliance (other than "this was made by one guy??") so much as make a game that made me think differently.

I think its similarity to Portal is something I hadn't thought of before now, but that explains a lot about why I liked it.

Re: Jonathan Blow's new game, The Witness, is out

#160

Post by samatman »

nwhitehead wrote: post #158
lkozma wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is a common misconception that in the kind of puzzles you mention any number can come next in an equally meaningful way. There are well-defined (mathematically) and natural ways in which 6 is a better continuation to 1,2,3,4,5,... than say 15 or whatever else.

What's wrong with sequence A096774 (numbers with 9*10^n+7 prime)? Why is sequence A000027 (numbers starting at 1 increasing by 1 each time) better? Because it comes earlier in the encyclopedia of sequences?

A000027 almost certainly has a lower Kolmogorov complexity. Nothing wrong with the other sequence, per se... the maxim "When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras" appiles.
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