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What a PhD Really Means in the US National Security Community

news.vice.com

11–20 of 77 posts

Re: What a PhD Really Means in the US National Security Community

#11
post #2

To summarize: contractors can bill the federal government at higher rates for PhDs, without respect to the origin or meaning of that degree, and pass on some of it to the employee, so these employees are getting PhDs in the most expedient way. The main difference between now and the 20th Century is the explosion of on-line schools and the expansion of the "national security community."

There has been a significant rise in advertising around the DC metro area for online schools. Usually the premise is the same: "get a degree|certification quickly in cyber-|management". Degrees (not just PhDs), certifications, etc all equate to higher billable rates for the contractor. The contractor world is probably single-handedly keeping the certification industry afloat.

Re: What a PhD Really Means in the US National Security Community

#12

Skimmed article, not really getting the outrage. Since when do you need a "real" PhD to do the work described there? If the issue is that the govt is obliged to pay the contractors higher for people with PhDs then, by all menas, let's complain. Otherwise this is just some pointless rending of clothes

I don't think the government is obliged to pay the contractors more for people with PhDs, but it does choose to.

Re: What a PhD Really Means in the US National Security Community

#13
post #8

I'm also intrigued, and seemingly let down, by folks with degrees in "Cyber {defense|analysis|warfare}". These degrees are always laid out on a resume with other super-sexy sounding credentials and accolades. Unfortunately, the interviews always seem to reveal a lot of (sometimes serious) technical gaps. The only reliable indicators I've come to find for technical and engineering acumen are curiosity and experience.…

Yes presumably this whole thing unravels when you interview someone and say 'oh great you have PhD - can you tell me about your top three peer-reviewed papers'

Re: What a PhD Really Means in the US National Security Community

#14
post #9

" He adds that no one counseled him not to attend, and nobody has questioned his right to call himself a doctor. " This is the second or third article I've read (from Vice) on this subject, and there's never any discussion of the process of getting a PhD. You don't get one for taking classes, or for taking tests. If I can't find a copy of your dissertation and at least one published article, I'm very much going to qu…

I admittedly do not know much about post-baccalaureate academia. If a non-accredited school in fact does offer a PhD simply for taking classes, can you call yourself doctor? What about a non-accredited school that still requires a dissertation but 99% of those submitted are approved? I am assuming that an accredited school handing out PhDs like this would lose their accreditation but maybe that's not the case.

I'm just not sure under what circumstances it's a legitimate decision to say "You may have a PhD but you're not really a doctor."

Re: What a PhD Really Means in the US National Security Community

#15
Can someone explain why "100% online" is used as a clear negative factor? What makes physical proximity to a whiteboard a better indicator of academic achievement?

The ability and willingness to have a family, a full-time job, and earn an advanced degree should not be a negative signal.

Re: What a PhD Really Means in the US National Security Community

#16
There are a lot of ways degrees can be bogus. With online education seemingly at the nexus of technology, timing, investor interest & consumer demand we're hearing a lot about it lately. Most astute commentators spend some time on the question of credentialing.

It's one of these weird issues where the new thing needs a good solution, but when you look at the old thing you see that it has a pretty terrible solution and that the problem might not be solvable.

I went to a well respected school. A pass in an arts degree "Arts Degree" (meaning humanities, mostly) at that school was basically available to anyone willing to show up, turn in 20k-30k words per semester (regardless of quality) and attend 3-4 tutorial per week without preparation. They just don't normally fail someone who completes the requirements, with a very liberal definition of that concept. It's not like math where you can either solve the problem in the exam or you can't. They accepted that subjectivity and left a large loophole wide open.

At the same time, very few students actually took advantage of that, with prior intent. Most of the learning opportunity was ungraded. There was 4-500 weekly pages of required reading on Kant, North African Medieval History, the history of ideas in cognitive psychology or high classical interpretations of the allegory of the cave. If you showed up at lectures, tutorials and discussions ready to discuss these materials every day you would probably experience learning that is unlikely to occur outside a university.

The mechanism for making sure you actually learn is always some degree of lax. That's within a University that has no interest, need or intent to exchange pieces of paper for money. Throw in globalization, an infinite number of institutions , the monetary incentives faced by bottom tier schools, etc and you have a big chunk of bogus degrees.

So… We can open the door and turn the lights on a lot of rooms with a lot of sordid activity. We'll get to see a lot of things we'd rather not see with knickers indignantly bunched up around ankles. I seriously doubt the "Intelligence Community" is unique in any way.

It's tricky shedding light on problems we don't know how to solve.

Re: What a PhD Really Means in the US National Security Community

#18
post #15

Can someone explain why "100% online" is used as a clear negative factor? What makes physical proximity to a whiteboard a better indicator of academic achievement? The ability and willingness to have a family, a full-time job, and earn an advanced degree should not be a negative signal.

Nothing inherent.

But… Whiteboard schools are older and most of the currently higher reputation institutions are mostly physical. Many online-only schools are lower reputation, newer, or lower tier.

Also, if the school has a cynical business model of serving students interested entirely on the piece of paper saying they attended.

You could come up with similarly derogatory things to say about Pacific Island institutions, nigh schools, etc. It's a correlation not a causation.

I think there's also reality to the task of attaining what we think of as a valid Masters Degree of PHD. A family, and a full-time job are very demanding pursuits. I commend anyone who can achieve that kind of degree with those kinds of commitments. But, I also think it's suspicious when schools see their core offering as something suitable for a full time working family man to get a masters degree in 18 months in his spare time, especially if the area tends to subjectivity.

Re: What a PhD Really Means in the US National Security Community

#19
post #14
post #9

" He adds that no one counseled him not to attend, and nobody has questioned his right to call himself a doctor. " This is the second or third article I've read (from Vice) on this subject, and there's never any discussion of the process of getting a PhD. You don't get one for taking classes, or for taking tests. If I can't find a copy of your dissertation and at least one published article, I'm very much going to qu…

I admittedly do not know much about post-baccalaureate academia. If a non-accredited school in fact does offer a PhD simply for taking classes, can you call yourself doctor? What about a non-accredited school that still requires a dissertation but 99% of those submitted are approved? I am assuming that an accredited school handing out PhDs like this would lose their accreditation but maybe that's not the case. I'm ju…

I'd say a majority of accredited schools also have very high dissertation acceptance rates. That is, you have been counseled by your adviser and other professors (a thesis committee) as to how things are going. They typically give you advice and want you to succeed.

Those that do not heed this advice do not get advised to turn in a dissertation.

Re: What a PhD Really Means in the US National Security Community

#20
post #2

To summarize: contractors can bill the federal government at higher rates for PhDs, without respect to the origin or meaning of that degree, and pass on some of it to the employee, so these employees are getting PhDs in the most expedient way. The main difference between now and the 20th Century is the explosion of on-line schools and the expansion of the "national security community."

So (and I'm guessing here because I really can't stand to click on a Vice link) that a lot of those PhDs are in bullshit fields like "national security studies" or similar?

here's the relevant image: https://news-images.vice.com/images/2016/01/27/doctors-of-do...

the analysis is pretty straightforward from there.

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