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ADHD Is Fuel for Adventure

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Re: ADHD Is Fuel for Adventure

#11

Post by derefr »

spacedmountain wrote: post #5
derefr wrote: post #2

Orthogonal. Having ADHD doesn't imply a desire to be outside playing. It's a disorder of motivation, not a disorder of focus—an inability to practice , and sometimes to concentrate ; but not an inability to think, or to enjoy thinking. Personally, in my childhood, I liked math and science. I had (and still have) ADHD, which made that hard, but I struggled through, because that was my passion. Medication (which I didn…

I would further polish your desription - and call it a disorder of mismatched motivation. People with ADHD can motivate just fine on things that stimulate them - and have even reported 'hyperfocus', a trance-like state of emersion in something. The problem is things that are not stimulating become very challanging or even impossible. This is why bills, appointment, rules, and chores can be so difficult for ADHD peopl…

Maybe I was using "motivation" in a jargon sense. Motivation (some people call it "willpower", but that ascribes it a "choosability" it doesn't really have) is the resource you have that allows you to do things you don't want to do.

To put it another way: some things in life are a hassle (or a "schlep", in pg's phrasing[1]). The more motivation you have, the less this matters. The less motivation you have, the more of a problem a thing being a "hassle" will be. When you have chronically-low motivation, you avoid "hassles" as a rule, to the point that you stop even being able to lead your mind down potential avenues of thought that involve "hassles."

If you want a fictional example of what having ADHD really tends to look like, it's not Calvin of C&H, it's Shikamaru from Naruto[2].

This model, by the way, has all sorts of consequences outside of just ADHD. When people are "too hungry to decide what to eat"—that's because hunger depletes motivation, and decisions are fundamentally hassles. The hungrier you get, the less motivation you can tap to "just" decide. (You can force yourself to decide, or trick yourself into deciding, but you can't "just" decide.)

---

[1] http://paulgraham.com/schlep.html

[2] Yui from K-On is also a striking example. That show's entire theme, actually, is essentially "how to succeed in life despite having ADHD", which is a real surprise for something so fluffy.

Re: ADHD Is Fuel for Adventure

#12

Post by wilwade »

greys0ul wrote: post #4

I think this is an excellent way to help some kids cope with adhd, but I definitely don't think it'd work universally. Reading this made me think back on my own struggle with adhd. A few years ago I was diagnosed with adhd at the age of 23, and god damn do I wish it happened a decade sooner, but my parents were the type that didn't believe in that kind of stuff, so I was just lazy. It's stuck with me to this day even…

> waiting too long for medication probably isn't a great idea either

I think this is critical. I have a 7 year old daughter who was diagnosed about a year ago. For context pre-meds she was getting frustrated at her inability to put together her own LEGO creations. She would work on 5+ at a time. She was frustrated and was just being able to express her own frustration. Post-meds (dexmethylphenidate) she can actually build with LEGO (her greatest love I think).

The key idea however for us is that the meds give her time to learn. Not school learning stuff, but to learn about actions and consequences. About how her executive functioning can be improved and how her brain works.

Re: ADHD Is Fuel for Adventure

#13

Post by yesco »

elfyhat wrote: post #3

But will the positive experience kids get with this kind of activity have a long-lasting impact in their life? Will they grow up to be adults without ADHD or lesser symptoms? I was in the scouts when I was a kid and teen, ultimately reaching the rank of Eagle scout. I did plenty of outdoor activities and sports, not necessarily extreme, however we did go portaging deep into the Boundary Waters quite a few times. Yet,…

Something to keep in mind is that adrenaline is something used in medication to treat ADHD in some cases. The desire for some to go out and do things like this (ie: Base Jumping) could be sourced to them craving that adrenaline that helps them focus. Maybe they are taking the wrong type of medication or maybe they aren't taking any at all.

Additionally I found this part very frustrating

>>Panksepp points out that while common stimulant medications for ADHD like Ritalin and Adderall may improve attention skills and academic performance in many kids, they do so at the cost of reducing the playfulness urge—at least temporarily. “We know these are anti-play drugs in animals,” he says. “That is clear and unambiguous.”

This is strongly anecdotal but as someone who takes Adderall, I can't say this could be any further from the truth. The only thing that I can come up with that could lead to this thinking is that younger kids who have trouble with their hyperactivity might not be as hyper anymore after taking medication (which was the whole point in the first place for some). All this is doing is encouraging more adrenaline junkies to treat themselves outside of conventional means.

Re: ADHD Is Fuel for Adventure

#14

Post by chris_wot »

spacedmountain wrote: post #5
derefr wrote: post #2

Orthogonal. Having ADHD doesn't imply a desire to be outside playing. It's a disorder of motivation, not a disorder of focus—an inability to practice , and sometimes to concentrate ; but not an inability to think, or to enjoy thinking. Personally, in my childhood, I liked math and science. I had (and still have) ADHD, which made that hard, but I struggled through, because that was my passion. Medication (which I didn…

I would further polish your desription - and call it a disorder of mismatched motivation. People with ADHD can motivate just fine on things that stimulate them - and have even reported 'hyperfocus', a trance-like state of emersion in something. The problem is things that are not stimulating become very challanging or even impossible. This is why bills, appointment, rules, and chores can be so difficult for ADHD peopl…

I have ADD (I can't stand the H in ADHD - I'm not hyperactive) and I can spend hours and hours in front of a computer programming. I can also spend a hell of a lot of time doing laps of the pool for some reason.

I always find it ironic that it is my intense concentration that undoes me, the attention is ripping my mind away from the task I'm doing. Everything else seems to be a distraction, and that is intensely irritating.

Re: ADHD Is Fuel for Adventure

#15

Post by [deleted] »

spacedmountain wrote: post #5
derefr wrote: post #2

Orthogonal. Having ADHD doesn't imply a desire to be outside playing. It's a disorder of motivation, not a disorder of focus—an inability to practice , and sometimes to concentrate ; but not an inability to think, or to enjoy thinking. Personally, in my childhood, I liked math and science. I had (and still have) ADHD, which made that hard, but I struggled through, because that was my passion. Medication (which I didn…

I would further polish your desription - and call it a disorder of mismatched motivation. People with ADHD can motivate just fine on things that stimulate them - and have even reported 'hyperfocus', a trance-like state of emersion in something. The problem is things that are not stimulating become very challanging or even impossible. This is why bills, appointment, rules, and chores can be so difficult for ADHD peopl…

[deleted]

Re: ADHD Is Fuel for Adventure

#16

Post by watmough »

greys0ul wrote: post #4

I think this is an excellent way to help some kids cope with adhd, but I definitely don't think it'd work universally. Reading this made me think back on my own struggle with adhd. A few years ago I was diagnosed with adhd at the age of 23, and god damn do I wish it happened a decade sooner, but my parents were the type that didn't believe in that kind of stuff, so I was just lazy. It's stuck with me to this day even…

Sounds kinda familiar. No medication for me, but I'm a software engineer, focused driver, commercial multi-engine pilot. Not sure ADHD is a disability, just some traits that evolved that helped ensure survival.

Re: ADHD Is Fuel for Adventure

#17

Post by derefr »

chris_wot wrote: post #14
spacedmountain wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would further polish your desription - and call it a disorder of mismatched motivation. People with ADHD can motivate just fine on things that stimulate them - and have even reported 'hyperfocus', a trance-like state of emersion in something. The problem is things that are not stimulating become very challanging or even impossible. This is why bills, appointment, rules, and chores can be so difficult for ADHD peopl…

I have ADD (I can't stand the H in ADHD - I'm not hyperactive) and I can spend hours and hours in front of a computer programming. I can also spend a hell of a lot of time doing laps of the pool for some reason. I always find it ironic that it is my intense concentration that undoes me, the attention is ripping my mind away from the task I'm doing. Everything else seems to be a distraction, and that is intensely irri…

I've spent enough time with psychiatrists that I just rattle off "I have ADHD Inattentive Type" to avoid riling feathers.

Re: ADHD Is Fuel for Adventure

#18

Post by fasteo »

Slightly off-topic, but I have seem some great responses here I would like to add a somehow controversial comment.

I have a 10 year old kid diagnosed with severe ADHD-Inattentive type. He is on meds and behavioral therapy, and I must agree with most of the posts that meds is a must for these kids.

My very personal an unscientific explanation is that ADHD is not a disease in the traditional sense; instead, it is just a brain that does not fit in our current lifestyle. Would my kid have any problem living in a simpler society (hunter-gatherer group) ? Definitively not.

From time to time I tell my wife - and she gets very angry - that our kid has a MS-DOS brain, while we are all running Windows 10. The analogy is no exact, but it is just to emphasize that my kid belongs to another time. I only wish he can find his place in this world.

Re: ADHD Is Fuel for Adventure

#19

Post by tokenadult »

fasteo wrote: post #18

Slightly off-topic, but I have seem some great responses here I would like to add a somehow controversial comment. I have a 10 year old kid diagnosed with severe ADHD-Inattentive type. He is on meds and behavioral therapy, and I must agree with most of the posts that meds is a must for these kids. My very personal an unscientific explanation is that ADHD is not a disease in the traditional sense; instead, it is just…

Would my kid have any problem living in a simpler society (hunter-gatherer group) ? Definitively not.

I know some children like that. Children who cannot keep quiet while hunting would not fare well in a hunter-gatherer society. Indeed, young members of a hunting party who move around too much and make too much noise are in danger of being eaten themselves by larger predator animals. I'm not sure that there has ever been a selection advantage to having difficulty maintaining attention focus.

Re: ADHD Is Fuel for Adventure

#20

Post by SpaceCadetJones »

tokenadult wrote: post #19
fasteo wrote: post #18

Slightly off-topic, but I have seem some great responses here I would like to add a somehow controversial comment. I have a 10 year old kid diagnosed with severe ADHD-Inattentive type. He is on meds and behavioral therapy, and I must agree with most of the posts that meds is a must for these kids. My very personal an unscientific explanation is that ADHD is not a disease in the traditional sense; instead, it is just…

Would my kid have any problem living in a simpler society (hunter-gatherer group) ? Definitively not. I know some children like that. Children who cannot keep quiet while hunting would not fare well in a hunter-gatherer society. Indeed, young members of a hunting party who move around too much and make too much noise are in danger of being eaten themselves by larger predator animals. I'm not sure that there has ever…

The thing with ADHD is that the difficulty to maintain attention is often highly situational. As someone diagnosed I personally have a lot of trouble focusing on a lot, but when it comes to something like juggling or playing counter-strike it's pretty remarkable how well I suddenly tune everything out and get extremely engaged. Probably more so than a "neurotypical" person and their preferred activities. I'm also generally hyperactive, but not impulsive. I move around constantly at home, but in other social settings I'm able to sit still if it's socially unacceptable for me to be walking around or fidgeting.
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