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Request For Research: Basic Income

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#631
post #614

Not a single comment so far has mentioned Karl Marx. This "research" proposal is merely a technocratic rehash of Marxism: the inexorable forces of materialism and technological improvements entail endless progress driven by a Hegelian spirit. This will free humans from labor and eliminate the power of capital. Thus, somehow, unlimited production will enable people to live according to the motto "from each according t…

The Soviet Union did pretty well in its early years, with GDP growth faster than that of the US for a time. Cuba is still doing pretty well compared to similar Latin American countries at the time of the Cuban revolution. Don't know too much about the others.

Soviet Union: 7-20 million deliberately starved to death. [1] 1.5 million people executed during The Great Purge. [2] "Did pretty well".

Cuba: thousands executed for the ideas they held; forced labor camps; and more than 1.2m fled 1959-1993 (about 10% of the current population). "Doing pretty well". Cuba was one of the wealthiest countries in the Americas, before Marxists took over.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#632

Things that would help everyone, regardless of income, without depending on a radical restructuring of entitlement spending, that seem like things startups could actually do: * Equally credible alternatives to university education for professions that don't involve students shouldering $100k-$200k in debt based on decisions they have to make when they're 18 years old. * Empirical, blinded, skills-assessment based tur…

Financial desperation squeezes the cognitive juice right out of you. In 2013, Harvard researchers did a study of how financial stress affects decision making. Denise Cummins, Ph.D. explains their findings in Psychology Today: "When the cost of [a car] repair was increased to $3,000, a very different picture emerged: The cognitive performance of those at the upper end of the income distribution was unaffected by the i…

"When the cost of [a car] repair was increased to $3,000, the cognitive performance of those at the upper end of the income distribution was unaffected by the increase. But those at the lower end suffered a 40% decline! The authors interpreted this to mean that scarcity impaired people’s ability to think clearly. The threat—even an imagined threat—of a large bill made it difficult for poor people to focus on the cognitive tasks at hand."

That's me. I was recently fired for having severe narcolepsy. (Irony: The medication that might help with this condition for the first time in my life arrives tomorrow, a few days before our health insurance runs out.) It's been surreal to be excluded from most life aspirations due to being unable to participate in the 9 to 5 that society expects. Part of why it's hard is that no one can relate to this at all. When you throw your back out and are unable to work, people understand. When you arrive at 1pm because you have no memory of waking up and turning off all three of the alarms you'd set, no one cares why. You're damaged goods.

A basic income would at least assist with searching for my next job. My wife and I are now in a situation where we either start receiving income within three months max, or completely run out of money.

I know intellectually what needs to be done: Port a webapp from an older framework to a next-gen framework, then write a detailed post about how it was done and what the benefits were. That would be enough social standing to at least get some freelancing gigs.

Trouble is, I'm completely frozen. It's not quite fear -- closer to profound loss of hope. When a medical condition excludes you from society, it's easy to let it get the better of you, or feel bitter. Those are precisely the opposite feelings that will result in income.

In that light, it's not strange that a $3,000 bill would reduce someone's performance by 40%. Even if it's not a disaster, you end up wishing that you could take your wife on that honeymoon you've talked about for four years. When it took 6 months to save up $3,000 dispite a decently high salary, you know that your future will never be free from the "money problem," and that it will permeate every aspect of your life.

So what do you do? Try to be intelligent, of course. Try to see your situation as amusing. Amusement, yes; anger, no. It's easier to deconstruct a problem when it feels like a puzzle rather than a prison.

Easy to say that. What do I do? Pull up React docs while trying not to cry.

None of my ambitions matter anymore. Life is a years-long process of trying to recover from a tailspin. I'm 28; blink a few times and I'll be 50.

A basic income might help. When the company fired me without notice, they mentioned that our health and dental insurance will expire at the end of the month. This translates into a few things: (a) an extra $350/mo of bills, which accelerates our impending bankruptcy; (b) choose to remove my wisdom teeth and get a root canal right now, this week, which will knock me out for at least two weeks when I have to perform, and will cost at least 15% of our reserves anyway, so I'm not going to do that. Maybe it will result in messed up teeth for life, but that's an abstract problem that Future Me will deal with later.

On the other hand, maybe a basic income would hurt. I don't want handouts. I want to participate in life and to add value to my pursuits, just like you. It's easy to imagine feeling like maybe this basic income should be my lot in life. At least if I know we'll hit a brick wall in 3 months and that my wife won't be able to graduate, I can sort of force myself to try to use React / etc, and to otherwise hustle.

But I miss being 13, when life was an endless intellectual playground, and that "forcing yourself to have fun learning a programming framework" was an absurd contradiction.

Why post this? I don't know. It's not a sob story, and it's not really a warning. It seems like no one else will learn a thing from any of this. But at least it won't seem so mysterious that a $3,000 bill can subvert you.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#634
I don't know whether basic income will be effective, but I hypothesize that its changes in incentives will reduce productivity and happiness for the majority of people.

Personally, I’m more interested in a system where costs of living are drastically lowered. Subsidies could work, but I think technology could play a large role. Imagine a clothing factory where everything is automated. Raw fabric comes in and finished clothing comes out. With minimal human interaction, variable costs should be much lower. Customers might even be able to design custom clothes with software.

Nonprofit organizations could be established to maintain the factories and equipment. Their primary goals would be to minimize cost, ensure quality, and maximize customer satisfaction.

Obviously, such a system would require a lot of capital and technological advances, but I believe it is feasible. This idea could also be applied to other areas like farming, electricity, ISPs, etc.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#635
post #614

Not a single comment so far has mentioned Karl Marx. This "research" proposal is merely a technocratic rehash of Marxism: the inexorable forces of materialism and technological improvements entail endless progress driven by a Hegelian spirit. This will free humans from labor and eliminate the power of capital. Thus, somehow, unlimited production will enable people to live according to the motto "from each according t…

The Soviet Union did pretty well in its early years, with GDP growth faster than that of the US for a time. Cuba is still doing pretty well compared to similar Latin American countries at the time of the Cuban revolution. Don't know too much about the others.

Look at real GDP growth from Chile and Cuba over the past 50 years. Chile is far outpacing Cuba. I bet adding venezuela would also be illuminating.

It's easy to do "pretty well" in the early years, the books can be cooked, the standards changed, etc. But over time you can't hide failure.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#636
post #620

How about instead of using a "basic income" to enable people to pay for living expenses (food, housing), how about cut out the middleman and just pay for food & housing? This could be a system of college dormitories that people can live in free of rent, and includes cafeterias that serve meals free of cost. Anyone can live there, with some sort of local government oversight. You want to live somewhere nicer? Make mon…

I think you just described homeless shelters.

Except with better branding to address social acceptability.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is how "basic needs" are defined.

Easy: anything someone needs to avoid imminent or near imminent avoidable physical pain or death. Food, Shelter, Clothing, Healthcare.

Easy? What quality and variety of food? what size shelter and in what location? What brand of clothing and how many outfits? What level of health care? Who decides these things?

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#638
post #618

tptacek, please don't apply racist comments on this article. When you don't pay your bills, you simply don't riot on the streets as reaction. Likely not the fault of what you describe as "middle class white" group for enforcing municipal regulation. Likely no innocent parties on either parties involved.

Why was this down-voted? Ask yourself this; If tptacek's comment had the races reversed, would you think it racist? If it's racist to say, 'most crime is committed by African Americans' why isn't it racist to say 'middle class white people are responsible for levying default judgements and financial catastrophes on others?' I'm a middle class white person. I don't wish ill on any black people, or any other people. I…

At no point did tptacek suggest that people in Ferguson were rioting because they had arrest warrants out for them. GP wildly misrepresented tptacek's points.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#639

I want to add the following idea, which I have mentioned here on HN several times: I humbly submit this as my solo-founder, idea-only HN application; The Standard Pantry. The standard pantry is literally just that - a pantry of a set of basic ingredients that go along with a range of standard recipes and a weekly menu schedule. Provide this standard pantry as a partially subsidized offering and teach people how to ma…

I am working on an app in this area which I envision as a free app available for anyone, and especially those on food assistance programs. Because these programs are administered on a state-by-state basis, the "onboarding process" for people joining these programs is non-uniform, but I envision the case-workers or government employees who are enrolling people in these programs can also let them know about the app and assist people in downloading and installing it. I am currently developing it on weekend free-time.

The app will offer recipes geared towards cheap, healthy and delicious food. I am interested in encouraging better nutrition, budget economy, and assistive technology to people who may not have much in the way of experience or skill in selecting groceries, meal planning, or nutrition.

Starting February 1st, I will be living off the amount offered by US food assistance, which comes out to $6.25 a day at max. I am interested to see if I can do this, and I intend to "bootstrap" from "nothing: I am planning to use a portion of my food budget for the purchase of cooking implements and utensils. I have spent January buying various provisions so I can get a better gauge on what I will realistically be able to accomplish and when. For instance, the first week I will purchase staples like rice and fruits and vegetables, along with olive oil and butter and salt and pepper. Some provisions will span multiple weekly budgets while others will require weekly replenishment, like fresh fruits and vegetables or meat.

My father had to go on food assistance for half a year, a few years back, so this is an issue that is near and dear to me. He is fairly educated and already owned a fully provisioned kitchen but there are many people who may not and could use some help.

I plan to "show HN" when it's complete.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#640

If you want to see basic income in action, look no further than the various Native American tribes who operate casinos throughout the country. The results are not pretty [1]. [1] http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21639547-how-cas...

Perhaps there are other social factors at play.

I have a feeling this would be the excuse a lot of people would make if basic income didn't end up improving conditions for the poor.
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