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Request For Research: Basic Income

blog.ycombinator.com

281–290 of 1001 posts

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#281
post #213

"What can startups do to increase prosperity for everyone?" I think cheap quality housing is a huge area that would help everyone. Taxes and housing together eat up the vast majority of the earnings most people make. What could make a difference? - applying technology to building denser housing. for example, imagine cheap robotic excavation, so every house and building could bury all their parking lots and long term…

Yes--driving down the cost of housing is one of the things I think about the most. It seems so critical to the whole equation.

I often think about big cities where people have reasonably priced housing options available. Two great examples for me are Tokyo and Berlin. I think a big factor in both is a combination of dense traditional city planning, and transportation. I really enjoyed this piece on traditional cities: http://www.andrewalexanderprice.com/blog20130330.php

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#282
post #5

There's a very relevant section in this book ( The Second Machine Age: Work, Progress, and Prosperity in a Time of Brilliant Technologies - http://amzn.to/1KFJ1Iu ) , that I just read last night: > "His view is strongly supported by the work of economist Andrew Oswald, who found that joblessness lasting six months or longer harms feelings of well-being and other measures of mental health about as much as the death of…

This assumes people on basic income without jobs are idle. What about stay-at-home spouses and parents? What about community volunteers? What about people who take care of sick friends and relatives? Furthermore, what is the economic benefit of the activities listed above? What would be lost if those activities were either abandoned or required to be paid at a fair market price? I know, charging grandma by the hour i…

Aaand, it is not currently the imperative of gov't to provide people with a sense of self-worth. That may be a worthy thing to shoot for, but it isn't currently a purpose of government. Even if one accepts uncritically the self-worth imbue-ing power of labor it's not necessarily the only way to impart a sense of self-worth to the individual.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#283
It seems a lot more efficient to do a tabletop or synthetic study, rather than outright paying people BI as a sample.

Probably what I'd do is look at people receiving benefits equivalent to basic income. Disability is a good proxy for some -- you would need to correct for the disability itself. 20 year military pensions are another.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#284
Based on my own experiences of transitioning voluntarily into homelessness, I am very excited by the focus on lowering the cost of living. Living more simply, and getting there by a slow and intentional process (NOT coercive or painful), leads to more enjoyment of life, and less fear of failure. Funny how living in the presumed failure state of western society recalibrates your instincts.

I find myself wishing that something like the process I went through could be institutionalized to a degree. For example, I had to be previously indoctrinated on the value of minimalist living. I had to be convinced that that was something that I wanted. And I had to consider all my habits and responsibilities, and what I might be willing to give up to get me to different outcomes. I had to understand how cheap it could be to exist in the city in which I live, and then cut in order to get there. I had to let friends know of my goals, and hope that we could create new traditions that sacrificed little and perhaps even strengthened our relationship. The whole time, you are altering your habits, testing them out before removing the harness. For example, when I wanted to stop requiring my bathroom space, I started going to the gym every morning to shower. Once I was used to that in my daily routine, I then started doing fitness and running while I was there. And when I didn't want to come back for food, I started putting together a minimalist meal plan that I could prepare in advance and take with me for the day. Reworking my habits and needs was almost a full-time job for a few months. Anyhow, I would never assume most people would want to take it as far as I did. Everyone's path would be different, as their responsibilities and routines differ. But that slow process of change if life-altering.

I am now living in San Francisco for perhaps $300/month, and living very happily (perhaps moreso than ever), although El Nino is a recent complicating factor :) I will likely upgrade from hammock tent to camper in the near future, as I don't want to strain relationships with my partner. But up till now, it's worked very well.

And I want to clarify that I would never see minimalism the goal, but just a means to happiness and resilience. In any process that might resemble my own journey, taking something away should always be a choice made for future benefit.

Perhaps making that benefit more concrete could be part of any institutionalized program. Pay generously at first, but then expect costs to come down, and the more they come down, the more "reward". Perhaps that could be a retirement bonus. Or access to some sort of YC investment portfolio that would essentially be retirement reward. So the cheaper you learn to live, under the guidance of the program, the more of a nest-egg you earn.

Anyhow, apologies if this is less than coherent -- lots of thoughts in my head on this topic. I am very not in the "tech solutionism camp", and am pretty self-aware that my experience would be less a prescribed path, but rather a general template :)

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those problems are political; ie, we already know how to build more densely, how to make better trains, how to zone, etc. etc. For that matter, I doubt Uber for Houses would be successful (ignore all permits and just build).

Excavation is expensive and that's the main reason people don't use it. Trains are hard to build in established areas but self-driving cars, ride sharing, and hyper loop point to new ways enabled by technology. I agree that zoning is the big political obstacle. But I feel like some development entrepreneurs could convince some cities and make some great examples of dense livable neighborhoods.

In can't help but think that the only real answer to getting housing to be appropriately cheap is to manufacture it 100% off site and bring it to the site in easy to assemble pieces.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#286
post #238
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a more trivial alternative to "equally credible alternatives to university" - just ban education based discrimination. Same way US so nicely enforces regarding race or martial status. Make it illegal to ask. Simple change with 100% guaranteed positive outcome.

just ban education based discrimination I am not sure I understand this. If you are going to a doctor, you would want to make sure she is qualified, isn't it? And the only way (currently at least) to make sure is that degree that proves she knows what she is doing. Of course this doesn't apply to all professions.

Great example. To be a doctor you need to pass the medical board exams.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#287
post #5

There's a very relevant section in this book ( The Second Machine Age: Work, Progress, and Prosperity in a Time of Brilliant Technologies - http://amzn.to/1KFJ1Iu ) , that I just read last night: > "His view is strongly supported by the work of economist Andrew Oswald, who found that joblessness lasting six months or longer harms feelings of well-being and other measures of mental health about as much as the death of…

Is there any evidence that shows that Basic Income (that you DON'T lose if you happen to find work, as in the USA system) will cause people to sit around idle?

Not "idle" exactly, but in the Canadian Mincome experiment, teenagers and new parents decreased work hours (to focus on studies and childcare, respectively).

http://public.econ.duke.edu/~erw/197/forget-cea%20(2).pdf

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#288
Basic income introduces a few drawbacks:

- talented people will not need to do consulting or daytime jobs to support their startups or side-project, which can lead to them living in a bubble

- there will always be people who spend all their income on gambling, drugs, sex, whatever - with basic income they just have more cash to waste (although this could be controlled somehow)

- low-skilled jobs aren't going anywhere soon - how do we want to motivate people to do jobs like garbage collection or road maintenance - this is already a problem in countries with exuberant social systems like France

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#289
post #238
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a more trivial alternative to "equally credible alternatives to university" - just ban education based discrimination. Same way US so nicely enforces regarding race or martial status. Make it illegal to ask. Simple change with 100% guaranteed positive outcome.

just ban education based discrimination I am not sure I understand this. If you are going to a doctor, you would want to make sure she is qualified, isn't it? And the only way (currently at least) to make sure is that degree that proves she knows what she is doing. Of course this doesn't apply to all professions.

I think that's true to some degree but most types of doctors still require going through an internship (sometimes), rigorous and lengthy residency program and passing their specialty boards.

It's true if someone can do those 3 things without going to medical school they may be missing a great deal of knowledge passed from medical school that maybe they were not explicitly tested on or experienced in the field. I'm not sure what to do about that. If you could find a solution for that then banning from asking or considering education could actually work, I think...but that's a hard problem to solve.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#290
As a company founded on disruption and (mostly) willing phd dropouts i'm surprised you've set this at 5 years.

Ask yourself, is the additional research in extra years worth it over what can be accomplished in x years? (1-2 years in this case).

I say do what you've always done: fund disruptive ideas. In this case, research proposals with short timescales and big impact.

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