Request For Research: Basic Income • Hacker News Board

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#161

Post by a3n » Wed, Jan 27, 2016, 8:04 PM UTC

If there were a basic income, I might quit my job and look for a new one full time, rather than looking in my spare time, increasing the chances that I would find a better fit between me and the new company. There must be some utility or public good in that.

That might also provide some needed competition for lower wage/skill jobs, since they'll have to compete with scraping by on basic income. As it is now low wage employees are disposable and disrespected; "flexible" schedule means something different at Best Buy than at my current engineering job.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#162

Post by overcast » Wed, Jan 27, 2016, 8:05 PM UTC

TrevorJ wrote: post #17

I wonder what basic income would do to cost of living? If everyone ends up with x amount of guaranteed income, does the cost of living eventually rise by the same amount across the board and basically negate it? It seems like rent-seeking behavior would come in to play here.

Of course it does, it's the same thing with minimum wage increases. When businesses have to pay all of their employees more, that just doesn't come out of their pockets. Price increases across the board are passed down to customers.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#163

Post by malyk » Wed, Jan 27, 2016, 8:05 PM UTC

marcell wrote: post #44

I'm very skeptical of basic income as commonly understood. The typical basic income program I've seen goes something like this: give every person in the country $10k to live on, no strings attached. [a] 1) As defined above, this is horribly inefficient and expensive. I, a software engineer in Silicon Valley, would receive this $10k. How does this benefit society? I already make over $100k; I don't need additional inc…

1.) We'd have to implement it so that starting somewhere on the pay scale, taxes increase so that by some point you pay back to full $10k you received. Naively: $25k income you pay back $1000 of the $10k in taxes at $50k, pay back $2500, etc. That way you, making over $100k, essentially get $0 basic income by the end of the year.

2.) You probably have to say "everyone over 18 gets $10k, each child up to 3 per family gets $2k"...or something similar. Getting $10k per child creates some crazy incentives. (2010 there was roughly 70m people under 18, so it's only $2.38 trillion! ;)

3.) You can probably remove a ton of welfare programs if you do this, but not all. You can't completely remove the safety net, but a lot few people should have to be serviced by said net.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#164

Post by jessaustin » Wed, Jan 27, 2016, 8:05 PM UTC

forrestthewoods wrote: post #76

Bernie Sanders at the recent town hall meeting asked for someone to tell a story of their struggles. A woman in tears told of how hard it was to get by on $10k to $12k a year. It makes me wonder. How happy will people who only get basic income be? How easy or difficult will it be for them to get simple work for a little extra income? Now there is a big difference in getting $10k for free vs scraping it together from…

With basic income, that woman could quit her current stressful job, get a better job that only pays $9k, and be wealthier and happier with the resulting $19k income.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#165

Post by AngrySkillzz » Wed, Jan 27, 2016, 8:05 PM UTC

MCRed wrote: post #106

bishnu wrote: post #3

It's worth reading about the Canadian experiments with basic income in the 1970s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/colby-cosh-what-th... The experiment allowed households to opt out, and after a while most did. However this result is convoluted by the fact that the income was not inflation indexed, and inflation rates in Canada in the 1970s got quite high. The main concl…

In the USA, if Basic Income were to be implemented, where would the money come from? Currently the rate of monetary inflation is quite high- we've gone from $11T to $18T in the monetary system during the Obama administration. If we were to start printing even more money to pay people a basic income, this monetary inflation would cause prices to rise to wipe out the benefit of the program, most likely. In fact, the re…

> the reason people are suffering now is the level of monetary inflation

I don't think any respectable economist actually agrees with you on that. The increase in the monetary base during QE was paired with a collapse in the money multiplier. Most of that cash stayed in reserve at banks (see 'Repeat After Me: Banks Cannot And Do Not "Lend Out" Reserves'). Price inflation is nowhere in sight; inflation is below historic levels and even slightly below the Fed's inflation target.

As for the original question, the general idea seems to be eliminating most other forms of government welfare programs (TANF, SNAP, social security, etc.) since basic income will replace them, along with redistributive increases in income/capital gains/wealth taxes.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#166

Post by surfmike » Wed, Jan 27, 2016, 8:05 PM UTC

samstave wrote: post #147

surfmike wrote: post #97

"What can startups do to increase prosperity for everyone?" I think cheap quality housing is a huge area that would help everyone. Taxes and housing together eat up the vast majority of the earnings most people make. What could make a difference? - applying technology to building denser housing. for example, imagine cheap robotic excavation, so every house and building could bury all their parking lots and long term…

- applying technology to building denser housing. for example, imagine cheap robotic excavation, so every house and building could bury all their parking lots and long term storage areas below ground instead of occupying valuable real estate. You need to watch this: Digging down is for the 1% it would seem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLJ0zZQb9x0

Yup, it's expensive so generally only used in expensive projects. But it's a way of manufacturing land (or rather, saving land that would otherwise go for garages, storage, or other facilities that don't need windows). This makes housing cheaper because you then need to pay for less land per housing unit.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#167

Post by larsiusprime » Wed, Jan 27, 2016, 8:05 PM UTC

surfmike wrote: post #97

"What can startups do to increase prosperity for everyone?" I think cheap quality housing is a huge area that would help everyone. Taxes and housing together eat up the vast majority of the earnings most people make. What could make a difference? - applying technology to building denser housing. for example, imagine cheap robotic excavation, so every house and building could bury all their parking lots and long term…

Georgism is another option to tackle the housing issue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#168

Post by esonderegger » Wed, Jan 27, 2016, 8:05 PM UTC

davidw wrote: post #99

anc84 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Affiliate tag free link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D97HPQI/

I have a standing offer to buy a beer for anyone who visits me here in Bend with the entire 10's of cents I get every month with those links. But hey, at least it's a free beer for someone, rather than Jeff Bezos.

And in Bend that would be a delicious beer!

I'm thrilled Deschutes Brewery has started distributing here in DC. Also, count me among the many who have no issue with the use of Amazon affiliate links.

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#169

Post by kansface » Wed, Jan 27, 2016, 8:05 PM UTC

surfmike wrote: post #97

"What can startups do to increase prosperity for everyone?" I think cheap quality housing is a huge area that would help everyone. Taxes and housing together eat up the vast majority of the earnings most people make. What could make a difference? - applying technology to building denser housing. for example, imagine cheap robotic excavation, so every house and building could bury all their parking lots and long term…

All of those problems are political; ie, we already know how to build more densely, how to make better trains, how to zone, etc. etc. For that matter, I doubt Uber for Houses would be successful (ignore all permits and just build).

Re: Request For Research: Basic Income

#170

Post by tptacek » Wed, Jan 27, 2016, 8:05 PM UTC

Things that would help everyone, regardless of income, without depending on a radical restructuring of entitlement spending, that seem like things startups could actually do:

* Equally credible alternatives to university education for professions that don't involve students shouldering $100k-$200k in debt based on decisions they have to make when they're 18 years old.

* Empirical, blinded, skills-assessment based turnkey hiring solutions that outperform interviews for non-technology roles like marketing, purchasing, &c, so that people who avail themselves of alternatives to universities can get good jobs regardless of social signals.

* Tools that make it possible for companies that today exploit the 1099 labor classification to cost-effectively offer benefits and handle taxes, to make on-demand employment legal and fair while remaining competitive.

* Alternatives to patient-present doctor-mediated health care to cover the 80% case in which doctors are expensive overkill; some combination of telemedicine and nurse-practitioners.

* Technology-mediated services that drastically improve outcomes in K12 education.

* Modern logistics-driven solutions for inexpensive high-quality child care.

* Products that offer serious competition for incumbents in the financial sector to bid down the 7-10% of the economy taken by financial services.

* Tools to improve engagement with local elections and make it easier for people to take flyers on standing for election.

* Modernized fee and fine collection for things like traffic and parking tickets, which currently default out to "charging minimum wage workers $2,000 to get the boot off the car on which they happen to owe 3 parking tickets".

* Similarly: a way to do things like enroll a credit card with your local government to automatically pay fines and fees at their reduced early-payment rate --- which is something you might be able to do without getting permission from local governments.

Later: I added some things