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Entrepreneur porn is a dangerous fantasy

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Re: Entrepreneur porn is a dangerous fantasy

#101

Post by Futurebot »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #71
bobby_9x wrote: post #61

"Money won’t make you happy" I disagree with this. I've been running my own company for a little over 5 years. Not having to worry about my rent and being able to live a comfortable lifestyle has made me really happy. If I made $100 million and didn't ever have to worry about money again, I definitely would be happier. It's the peace of mind that I'm working toward. But, the money isn't the main thing that makes me h…

Money won’t make you happy I have always hated this saying because it's worthless without the context of who is getting the money. I grew up poor - money definitely made us happy because we could afford to move out of my aunt or my grandmother's house. Everyone loves to cite the study that "above $75,000/year money doesn't make you happier" - without realizing that it's simply saying that there are diminishing return…

The whole thing about the "happiness/money metric" is incredibly misleading, because it doesn't touch upon what money really gets you. Happiness as an emotion might (for some people) trail off after a certain point, but that should be considered irrelevant. Money buys you safety, freedom, and the ability to take risks; those things aren't going to show up in any kind of happiness study. If I had a serious amount of money, that would give me the freedom to work on things I want to work on without having to worry about paying the rent, getting downsized, getting my pay cut, and all the rest.

The idea that the artist that doesn't have to spend their life working in a coffee shop to fund their art or that the software dev that would rather write FLOSS all day rather than take on boring contract gigs isn't happier is absurd on its face.

Re: Entrepreneur porn is a dangerous fantasy

#102

Post by unabst »

bobby_9x wrote: post #61

"Money won’t make you happy" I disagree with this. I've been running my own company for a little over 5 years. Not having to worry about my rent and being able to live a comfortable lifestyle has made me really happy. If I made $100 million and didn't ever have to worry about money again, I definitely would be happier. It's the peace of mind that I'm working toward. But, the money isn't the main thing that makes me h…

What you're saying is "Money won't make you happy, but a lack of it will" which is a more accurate statement that doesn't necessarily contradict the shorter version. And this is what most talk about when using similar lines anyway.

You admit development is where you find joy. You could be doing this broke if you didn't need money, but you do for rent etc. So the first step in happiness is to find how much money you need to be able to forget about it. If your goal is to be able to forget about something, it's certainly not something making you happy. It's what makes you miserable, but only when you lack it.

This makes money like water or electricity. Lack of it would make us miserable. But beyond what we need, we cease to think about it. We practically have infinite water coming from our taps, and more than enough electricity we need. But it's the quenching of thirst, the long baths, the phone charging, the computer that's always on... these are the only things that could possibly make us happy.

Resources don't necessarily make us happy or miserable. They're just enablers.

Re: Entrepreneur porn is a dangerous fantasy

#103

Post by stuxnet79 »

rwhitman wrote: post #93
hkmurakami wrote: post #50

I remember a slew of articles mid 2015 that raised the criticism that founders came from privileged backgrounds. The article also mentioned "the cult of the entrepreneur" and the idolization of these characters. I am born and raised in SV and yet I frankly do not understand the fetishization of entrepreneurs and the idea that this line of work is somehow holier than any other. Isn't that the root of the problem, rath…

There's a narrative we're told about entrepreneurs that we're not told about Wall St. One of the founding values of America is that anyone with innovative entrepreneurial drive can start their own business and build wealth from nothing. It's what brought so many immigrants to this country, and is even taught to us in school as being the backbone of capitalism. Most people in America have never actually met a successf…

Yes, I mostly agree with your point. I have been reading a lot of biographies of successful entrepreneurs lately and have discovered that quite a lot of spinning and outright fabrication occurs in how their backgrounds are presented.

Like right now I am reading Elon Musk's biography. It's said he had a "tough" upbringing. Yet he had access to a "Commodore VIC-20" in apartheid-era South Africa and further was able to easily immigrate to Canada and later America in search of further opportunities because he was a Canadian citizen via his mother.

Re: Entrepreneur porn is a dangerous fantasy

#104

Post by headgasket »

w1ntermute wrote: post #13
kelvin0 wrote: post #10

Glad to see this piece posted on HN. I realize now when I first came to HN I felt somewhat 'ashamed' that I was not working towards being the 'next unicorn'. It took some time for me to realize that there are many more avenues that suit me and ultimately will be more fulfilling.

> when I first came to HN I felt somewhat 'ashamed' that I was not working towards being the 'next unicorn' HN was created as an interactive advertisement for YC (and startups in general), and it's important to understand that before getting sucked in.

this bias is something that has been creeping up more and more; if another unbiased forum for hackers-entrepreneurs does emerge I'd love to hear from it. I'm finding myself back on slashdot often these days, which has less of these ("unicorn x" for ") story-press releases. Or polemic-y time wasting topics that have nothing to do with hacking.

Re: Entrepreneur porn is a dangerous fantasy

#105

Post by AJ007 »

lettergram wrote: post #88
rday wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been running my "consultancy" for over 5 years. Roughly 15% of my annual revenue is lost to non-payment. Customers pay late all the time . Literally. I've never had an invoice paid on time. Customers cancel projects right before they start, or pause projects half way through to focus on other areas. Due to these situations, I try to always have 3 months of salary in the bank. I never do, but I try. If you are pa…

Have them put money in an escrow account. I have done freelance work since I was a kid and one thing I've always done was ask for money upfront, maybe not in my hands, but held by a 3rd party. Losses of 15% seem a bit high too me. Writing software for someone else is kind of like painting a scene from someone's dream. There is a good chance you wont hit 100% of what they were looking for, and your goal is to make the…

With a few exceptions, businesses of all types have to deal with non-receivables.

A better strategy is to make sure the company that owes you money knows you are serious about collections and will aggressively pursue. Something as simple as having your lawyer send a collections letter by certified mail will deliver a good portion of the time.

If everyone did this, it wouldn't work. Companies that consistently pay late or continuously try to get out of paying are doing so because they simply don't have the cash. If they think you are going to cause them to spend more cash by them not paying you on time, you will get moved up the list.

Re: Entrepreneur porn is a dangerous fantasy

#106

Post by Futurebot »

hkmurakami wrote: post #96
rwhitman wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a narrative we're told about entrepreneurs that we're not told about Wall St. One of the founding values of America is that anyone with innovative entrepreneurial drive can start their own business and build wealth from nothing. It's what brought so many immigrants to this country, and is even taught to us in school as being the backbone of capitalism. Most people in America have never actually met a successf…

I really like framing this situation as "a myth" (and especially as a foundational myth). Thanks for this perspective!

The "Horatio Alger" myth is one of our most common to illustrate this one. Which is hilarious, because the myth is based on a heavily abridged version of the stories:

"We think we know what comes next: Through hard work and perseverance, Ragged Dick emerges from destitution into a well-deserved fortune. But our contemporary notion of a “Horatio Alger story” departs significantly from what actually transpires in a Horatio Alger story. His heroes do exhibit many of the traditional self-made virtues—industry, frugality, a penchant for self-improvement—which set him apart from the ne’er-do-wells and confidence men who populate his adventures in the streets of New York. But these attributes merely qualify the Alger hero for success; they don’t produce it.

Instead, in Ragged Dick and in the scores of imitations Alger would write in its wake, the hero’s rise is the result of good luck and the good offices of a wealthy benefactor. In novel after novel, Alger’s hero meets a kindly gentleman who takes an interest in the poor boy’s advancement. He then buys the boy a new suit—a rite of passage into respectability that occurs in every story (often there’s a new watch, too)—and finds him a job, typically a junior position in a mercantile firm. Ragged Dick retires his boot-blacking kit when he’s offered a position as a clerk in the counting room of a Mr. Rockwell. He earns that position by saving Rockwell’s son, who conveniently falls off the Brooklyn ferry just as Dick’s penmanship has really started to improve."

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history/2014...

Even our myths are mythical.

Re: Entrepreneur porn is a dangerous fantasy

#107

Post by sliverstorm »

Retric wrote: post #23
rmc wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> already had a trust-fund or come from a wealthy background so they can spend all of their time writing, painting, or engineering Being from a wealthy background also benefits the startup because you or your family probably "know people" who can help.

Microsoft's early story looks a little different when you realize Bill Gate's mother just happens to know IBM's CEO.

Well, it isn't rags-to-riches but it's still very impressive. IBM's CEO knew a lot of people, not just Gate's mother.

Re: Entrepreneur porn is a dangerous fantasy

#108

Post by BjoernKW »

rday wrote: post #81
BjoernKW wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine a lot of businesses that come with lower risk attached than consulting: You don't need equity. Profit margins are high. Depending on your particular expertise your services will be in demand for years to come (anything software-related). If you do it right you can work for several clients at the same time. At least you can always have a full sales pipeline so losing a contract won't be an end-of-the-w…

I would love to see your consulting model. You speak as if keeping a full sales pipeline while making multiple clients happy is a simple thing. I'll agree that a single person consultancy is 0 risk. I can accept a job offer tomorrow and stop accepting new clients. But growing your consultancy is just as risky as any other business, if not more so. You don't have a wide range of low paying clients, like a SaaS model.…

Well, no it's not simple. It means a lot of work and persistent marketing and sales efforts but it isn't particularly risky.

I'm running a single person consultancy. If I need help with handling the work depending on the client I can hire other freelancers. The secret to reducing risk is to always be selling / marketing and to not accept full-time projects. This precludes many project offers but you can stay flexible and don't have to decline projects or stop accepting new clients. Offering products, coaching and productized services besides your main consulting business also helps.

I agree that consulting becomes risky once you've got other developers on your payroll. It can be done, too though but you'd have to grow slowly and carefully.

Re: Entrepreneur porn is a dangerous fantasy

#109

Post by sliverstorm »

Futurebot wrote: post #101
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money won’t make you happy I have always hated this saying because it's worthless without the context of who is getting the money. I grew up poor - money definitely made us happy because we could afford to move out of my aunt or my grandmother's house. Everyone loves to cite the study that "above $75,000/year money doesn't make you happier" - without realizing that it's simply saying that there are diminishing return…

The whole thing about the "happiness/money metric" is incredibly misleading, because it doesn't touch upon what money really gets you. Happiness as an emotion might (for some people) trail off after a certain point, but that should be considered irrelevant. Money buys you safety, freedom, and the ability to take risks; those things aren't going to show up in any kind of happiness study. If I had a serious amount of m…

It seems to me as something like, money enables you to go find happiness. But you have to figure out where to find it. Money itself is not happiness.

Re: Entrepreneur porn is a dangerous fantasy

#110

Post by metaphorm »

bobby_9x wrote: post #61

"Money won’t make you happy" I disagree with this. I've been running my own company for a little over 5 years. Not having to worry about my rent and being able to live a comfortable lifestyle has made me really happy. If I made $100 million and didn't ever have to worry about money again, I definitely would be happier. It's the peace of mind that I'm working toward. But, the money isn't the main thing that makes me h…

> If I made $100 million and didn't ever have to worry about money again, I definitely would be happier.

so actually you agree, money won't make you happy. its something you worry about now and the prospect of not worrying about it is what would make you happy.

you probably don't need anywhere even close to $100 million to have enough money so you won't have to worry about it anymore. unless your lifestyle is lavish and decadent even $10 million is quite a lot. collecting just 2% annual interest on that (a very modest figure, available from pretty safe investments) would yield $200,000 annual income, which is more than most people get paid in salary from a 9-5 job.

more to the point though is that everything you described is either 1) feeling relieved from not having to worry about the crushing effects of potentially falling into poverty or 2) feeling interested and engaged in the work itself.

I think you actually made a pretty convincing argument _against_ your own thesis here. Money can't make you happy, but lack of money (i.e. poverty) can make you very very unhappy. Things that can actually make you happy are generally not for sale.

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