Around the World in 33 Keyboards • Hacker News Board

Re: Around the World in 33 Keyboards

#11

Post by minikites » Wed, Jan 27, 2016, 2:47 PM UTC

noja wrote: post #8

minikites wrote: post #5

Looking at the subtle layout changes for Roman characters (which I assume are based only on letter frequency for each language) I wonder if it's possible to tell if they are more, less, or the same efficiency as QWERTY is for U.S. keyboards. Also, are there Dvorak equivalents for other languages?

Is there any real evidence that Dvorak layouts are better? I've only seen anecdata.

My understanding is that they're fractionally better speedwise and a bit better for RSI issues, but not enough to justify switching, it would take forever to make up the lost productivity while re-training.

Re: Around the World in 33 Keyboards

#12

Post by m0tive » Wed, Jan 27, 2016, 2:52 PM UTC

tcfunk wrote: post #2

But...but how does one type '#' on a British keyboard?

Use a standard british keyboard[1]. It is a pain using the Mac "british" keyboard for programming in my experience.

[1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:KB_United_Kingdom.sv...

Re: Around the World in 33 Keyboards

#13

Post by michaelcampbell » Wed, Jan 27, 2016, 2:53 PM UTC

egeozcan wrote: post #4

The first Turkish keyboard in the article is called the "Turkish F Keyboard", and is not in common use, although said to be better suited to write Turkish.

That one fascinated me the most. I don't know Turkish, but among them all it seemed the most different to what I'm used to seeing.

Re: Around the World in 33 Keyboards

#14

Post by cannam » Wed, Jan 27, 2016, 2:56 PM UTC

tcfunk wrote: post #2

But...but how does one type '#' on a British keyboard?

Apple keyboards are annoying like that. On a "normal" British keyboard, the '#' is unshifted and is just to the left of the Return key.

My habit when I have to use a Mac is to switch to the Australian mapping, which is the same as the British one but with £ and # switched.

Re: Around the World in 33 Keyboards

#15

Post by michaelcampbell » Wed, Jan 27, 2016, 2:57 PM UTC

minikites wrote: post #11

noja wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any real evidence that Dvorak layouts are better? I've only seen anecdata.

My understanding is that they're fractionally better speedwise and a bit better for RSI issues, but not enough to justify switching, it would take forever to make up the lost productivity while re-training.

It's less than you might think. I did a complete switchover to Dvorak to ameliorate some wrist issues and was back to my normal speed in about 2 weeks. I surpassed my qwerty speed by about 20% according to my own tests before and after.

That said, I'm back on qwerty because my wrist is OK now and it's just less hassle when using multiple machines over which I have less control.

Also, anecdotally, when I made the switch I was in my mid 20's. I tried the experiment again (albeit with Colemak) a couple years ago in my late 40's and after 2 weeks I was still struggling so gave up.

I don't know if age had anything to do with it, but that's one big difference between the 2 times.

Re: Around the World in 33 Keyboards

#16

Post by Guillaume86 » Wed, Jan 27, 2016, 3:00 PM UTC

m0tive wrote: post #12

tcfunk wrote: post #2

But...but how does one type '#' on a British keyboard?

Use a standard british keyboard[1]. It is a pain using the Mac "british" keyboard for programming in my experience. [1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:KB_United_Kingdom.sv...

I agree the post title should be edited, apple layout is not standard layout.

Re: Around the World in 33 Keyboards

#17

Post by marbletiles » Wed, Jan 27, 2016, 3:05 PM UTC

tcfunk wrote: post #2

But...but how does one type '#' on a British keyboard?

And how do Americans type the all-important § and ±?

Also, there's a nice single-serving site for your Q: http://wheresthehashkeyonamac.co.uk

Re: Around the World in 33 Keyboards

#18

Post by desdiv » Wed, Jan 27, 2016, 3:05 PM UTC

Interesting how the French Canadian keyboard is the only one where the escape key doesn't contain the word "esc". They went with the ISO keyboard symbol for escape instead[0]. I didn't even realize there was such a symbol before today.

[0] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ISOIEC-9995-7-029--I...

Re: Around the World in 33 Keyboards

#19

Post by phillc73 » Wed, Jan 27, 2016, 3:07 PM UTC

cannam wrote: post #14

tcfunk wrote: post #2

But...but how does one type '#' on a British keyboard?

Apple keyboards are annoying like that. On a "normal" British keyboard, the '#' is unshifted and is just to the left of the Return key. My habit when I have to use a Mac is to switch to the Australian mapping, which is the same as the British one but with £ and # switched.

I work in an Austrian company (in Austria). My laptop has a German keyboard layout. My USB keyboard has an American layout.

I have them both mapped to British layout and my fingers just "know" where things are. However, my conscious brain might not. I actually had to think really hard about where the '#' key is. On the American layout, it's printed above the number 3 (Shift-3), but actually produces the '£' symbol. The hash is above the return key and is printed as '\'. On the German keyboard it's actually in the "right" place, just to the left of the return key.

The biggest key I have problems with switching between American and British keyboards is the @ symbol. If I don't remap the keyboards, I'm forever typing " or @ incorrectly. On un-remapped German keyboards it's Y and Z.

I still try to buy my personal laptops from the UK, so I have the correct keyboard. It's a surprisingly big productivity loss to have incorrectly mapped keyboards.

Re: Around the World in 33 Keyboards

#20

Post by aikah » Wed, Jan 27, 2016, 3:08 PM UTC

As a french person, I use an AZERTY keyboard, it can become really tedious when programming in some languages. The ` for instance is a pain to type : Atl Gr + 7 then space (though on apple keyboards it seems to have a dedicated key, but I'm pretty sure the space is still needed)... and of course numbers need the shift key to be held ... The issue is I can't really switch to QWERTY (accents).