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Unit Definitions

futureboy.us

11–20 of 26 posts

Re: Unit Definitions

#11
post #7

> This means that, if you follow the rules of the SI, 1 Hz = 1/s = 1 radian/s I fail to see how this follows from the SI definition of either the hertz or the radian.

I always frowned upon the unit "radian". Radian is defined in terms of the ratio of two quantities both having length dimensions. So by this definition angle should be dimensionless. I really don't get radian.

Re: Unit Definitions

#13
Just in case anyone is confused by this: (maybe it's just me?)

    // Alan's notes:
    // I'd like to put a mu in here for micro.
    // Should we adopt the questionable Electrical Engineer policy of using
    // "u" to indicate micro?  I've added "uF" for microfarad later on to
    // tackle the most common case.
This is referring to using the practice of using the character "u" instead of "µ" as the SI prefix for micro-, presumably because it's easier to type 'u' or because a lot of stuff is still stored in ASCII. Notably, this appears to be the only SI prefix that uses a non-Latin character, thus the inherent problems when used in documents/systems that only support the Latin alphabet or otherwise make it difficult to use non-Latin characters.

Disclosure: Graduate of EE. Didn't know we were causing so many issues all this time with our rebellious use of microfarads :)

Re: Unit Definitions

#14
post #11
post #7

> This means that, if you follow the rules of the SI, 1 Hz = 1/s = 1 radian/s I fail to see how this follows from the SI definition of either the hertz or the radian.

I always frowned upon the unit "radian". Radian is defined in terms of the ratio of two quantities both having length dimensions. So by this definition angle should be dimensionless. I really don't get radian.

Angle, like any other quantity that is fed to a pure mathematical function (like the sine or cosine function), must be dimensionless [0]; and indeed it is. 'Degree' (as in 30 degrees) is not really a unit, but the number π/180, representing π units of arc along a circle of radius 180 units. 'Radian' is also not a unit, but rather the number 1, representing 1 unit of arc along a circle of radius 1 unit.

EDIT: [0] For example, one way of defining sin(x) is as the sum of the power series `x - x^3/6 + x^5/120 - …`; this cannot be dimensionally consistent unless x is dimensionless. Another is to define y(x) = sin(x) to be the solution of `d^2y/dx^2 = -y` satisfying certain initial conditions; but the units of `y` can only be equal to those of its second derivative if the argument of `y` is dimensionless.

EDIT 2: One easy way to fix the potential dimensional inconsistency is to replace `d^2y/dx^2 = -y` by `d^2y/dx^2 = -k^2 y`, where `k` is just a conversion factor for dimensional consistency (so that `[k] = [x]^{-1}`). Then a solution is `y = sin(k x)`; and, once again, the argument of the sine function is dimensionless.

Re: Unit Definitions

#15
post #7

> This means that, if you follow the rules of the SI, 1 Hz = 1/s = 1 radian/s I fail to see how this follows from the SI definition of either the hertz or the radian.

> > This means that, if you follow the rules of the SI, 1 Hz = 1/s = 1 radian/s

> I fail to see how this follows from the SI definition of either the hertz or the radian.

The definition of 'Hertz' is 1/s. 'Radian' is not a unit, but a dimensionless number (the number 1, in fact, representing the ratio of arclength to radius where the arclength and radius happen to be the same), so that 1/s = radian/s.

Re: Unit Definitions

#16

In regards to the difference between American and European billion/trillion/etc: // These number terms were described by N. Chuquet and De la Roche in the 16th // century as being successive powers of a million. These definitions are // still used in most European countries. The current US definitions for these // numbers arose in the 17th century and don't make nearly as much sense. Huh? Admittedly I'm biased, being…

I think the "making sense" refers to the fact that "billion" has "bi-" as a prefix, and "trillion" has "tri-" as a prefix. In American English, it's not clear what is "bi-", exactly, about a billion -- two of what? If we had skipped "billion" and gone with "trillion" = 1e9, then it would be more natural, because then it would refer to the number of thousands; but then the more natural nomenclature would be "bi-sands"…

Aha, that actually makes a lot of sense. I was only thinking about which numbers should have unique names, not whether the names we've given them make sense for their positions. Thanks!

Re: Unit Definitions

#18

Just in case anyone is confused by this: (maybe it's just me?) // Alan's notes: // I'd like to put a mu in here for micro. // Should we adopt the questionable Electrical Engineer policy of using // "u" to indicate micro? I've added "uF" for microfarad later on to // tackle the most common case. This is referring to using the practice of using the character "u" instead of "µ" as the SI prefix for micro-, presumably be…

Speaking of questionable EE conventions, why do electrical engineers seem to never use nanofarads? 10 nF capacitors are usually labeled as 10,000 pF or 0.01 µF, for seemingly no good reason.

Also, the ohm symbol is frequently omitted from resistance specifications. 10 kΩ is written as 10 k (or worse, 10k).

Re: Unit Definitions

#19
post #11
post #7

> This means that, if you follow the rules of the SI, 1 Hz = 1/s = 1 radian/s I fail to see how this follows from the SI definition of either the hertz or the radian.

I always frowned upon the unit "radian". Radian is defined in terms of the ratio of two quantities both having length dimensions. So by this definition angle should be dimensionless. I really don't get radian.

I've always ribbed against my physics professors using the notation of rad/s. To be fair, they'd make it clear that the reason they used it was to remind the students that the quantities were angular (ie \omega not velocity).

Re: Unit Definitions

#20
post #15
post #7

> This means that, if you follow the rules of the SI, 1 Hz = 1/s = 1 radian/s I fail to see how this follows from the SI definition of either the hertz or the radian.

> > This means that, if you follow the rules of the SI, 1 Hz = 1/s = 1 radian/s > I fail to see how this follows from the SI definition of either the hertz or the radian. The definition of 'Hertz' is 1/s. 'Radian' is not a unit, but a dimensionless number (the number 1, in fact, representing the ratio of arclength to radius where the arclength and radius happen to be the same), so that 1/s = radian/s.

yeah, the guy writing that rant in the units.txt file is messed up in the head.
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