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Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#111

Post by leshow »

merpnderp wrote: post #96
jrcii wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Counting calories _always_ works for weight loss. If you simply eat fewer calories than your body needs each day, you will lose weight. Funny you should say that when this was just published today: http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/01/why-the-calorie-is-br...

Funny because eating 2000 calories of a carb rich diet maintains my weight, but eating 3000 calories of a carb poor diet and I lose weight. All calories aren't the same, and your body doesn't use them the same. Why is this still controversial?

if you read the article, it covers instances where foods are mislabelled; the calorie content on the back is not correct.

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#112

Post by adhearn »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #49
randlet wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's tough to hear but no matter what your genetics or internal flora are, being overweight is still your fault . It may not be "fair" that someone puts on less weight than someone else eating the same diet, but ultimately you're the one responsible for maintaining your own weight (by controlling what you put in your mouth) no matter what the state of your gut microbes. edit: not picking on you Onion2k...I end up com…

http://news.discovery.com/animals/fat-pets-obesity-weight.ht... - Mammals that live near or with humans, from lab rats to pet pooches, have gotten fatter over recent decades. - Fatter lab animals are the hardest to explain, since their diet is tightly controlled and well documented. - Endocrine disruptors, pathogens or temperature changes might play a role and could also factor into human obesity http://www.bbc.com/n…

The Minnesota Starvation Experiment was such a poorly designed diet that it's not really relevant to the modern discussion of prevent obesity among a relatively prosperous population. According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_Experimen...), the diet was based on "foods that were expected to typify the diets of people in Europe during the latter stages of the war: potatoes, rutabagas, turnips, bread and macaroni." In other words, almost entirely carbs, with practically no fat or protein. Almost every reasonable diet I know of (coming from the modern fitness community at least) focuses first on maintaining adequate protein intake as the top priority, usually followed by at least a reasonable amount of fat. While it may have been useful to understanding starvation in a population with food scarcity, it just doesn't apply when looking at obesity in modern America.

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#113

Post by pietjepuk88 »

leshow wrote: post #101
ars wrote: post #2

This is pretty astonishing research, not so much for the results, as for the methodology. Doing research on what people eat is VERY hard, it's very hard to get accurate data. Pairing people and having them eat identically is brilliant. I hope it's also scalable for longer term studies. By pairing people they are likely to give much more accurate reports about what they actually eat, and it allows direct comparisons.

Except it doesn't in the realm of weight gain/loss. People's metabolisms vary by a wide margin, we could both eat exactly the same and I could lose weight, while you gain.

Of course no two persons are exactly the same, so your statement about gain/loss is true no matter what. However, I just want to say that a wide margin is only about ~10%, or two tablespoons of peanut butter for a typical "doing nothing" metabolism. This is assuming roughly the same physique and exercise pattern [1]. People differ, but in my experience the influence of genes is overestimated quite often.

Of course, top athletes can burn through 2-3 times what a desk-worker might burn through. And I think the small number I mentioned above also tells that you can slowly but steadily put on quite some weight, by eating every day just one slice of bread more than you need.

[1] https://examine.com/faq/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-peo...

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#114

Post by [deleted] »

onion2k wrote: post #39
npsimons wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doing research on what people eat is VERY hard, it's very hard to get accurate data. AKA, don't bother with any studies with self-reported data. No one wants to admit it's their fault they got fat, but it always is.

No one wants to admit it's their fault they got fat, but it always is. If that were the case then studies to find out why two people can eat the same thing and do the same amount of exercise yet one of them can end up fatter than the other wouldn't be necessary. It seems to be the case that, all external factors being equal, how fat you are can be determined by something outside of your control (genetics, gut microbe…

[deleted]

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#115

Post by leshow »

pietjepuk88 wrote: post #113
leshow wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it doesn't in the realm of weight gain/loss. People's metabolisms vary by a wide margin, we could both eat exactly the same and I could lose weight, while you gain.

Of course no two persons are exactly the same, so your statement about gain/loss is true no matter what. However, I just want to say that a wide margin is only about ~10%, or two tablespoons of peanut butter for a typical "doing nothing" metabolism. This is assuming roughly the same physique and exercise pattern [1]. People differ, but in my experience the influence of genes is overestimated quite often. Of course, t…

Examine.com is a great resource.

I coach myself and other bodybuilders/figure athletes on the side, consider this anecdotal. Working with the extremes of muscle mass I've found that it can affect metabolism a great deal. Simply by the fact that you have so much more weight to carry around/maintain. For example, I maintain weight at 205lb @ 5'7" (relatively) lean at 3500 kcal, for a competition I have to be ~170lb, my maintenance intake at that weight is closer to 2000kcal. Note that exercise also increases closer to a competition, so that 2000kcal maintenance is with higher activity levels than offseason.

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#116

Post by SerpentJoe »

[deleted] wrote: post #114
onion2k wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one wants to admit it's their fault they got fat, but it always is. If that were the case then studies to find out why two people can eat the same thing and do the same amount of exercise yet one of them can end up fatter than the other wouldn't be necessary. It seems to be the case that, all external factors being equal, how fat you are can be determined by something outside of your control (genetics, gut microbe…

[deleted]

Oh please. Energy from food gets stored in fat molecules, that's true, but it's not like physics decrees exact equality in people's outcomes. Someone who digests less efficiently will receive less nutrition from the food they eat. People with tapeworms manage to put on less weight than you'd expect from their diet, for example, and it doesn't seem to be worrying any physicists I've met.

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#117

Post by npsimons »

tptacek wrote: post #104
npsimons wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is moot; sawdust is basically pure undigestible fiber (poor mans Metamucil), so since the caloric content of it is virtually nil, it would be impossible to consume 10,000 calories of it.

The caloric content of olive oil is not virtually nil, and you can in fact consume a whole bottle of olive oil. Does "thermodynamics" dictate that you'll gain several pounds of fat after you do that? Your answer, of course, is "no". So just to move the conversation forwards: do you think if 3 random people consumed a bottle of olive oil, they would necessarily gain an equivalent amount of weight? Why or why not?

This question is facetious, almost as facetious as the "10,000 calories of sawdust". Almost. The human body can only process so much fat at once based on bile production. On top of all that, I would say no, I wouldn't gain several pounds of fat after consuming a whole bottle of olive oil because it wouldn't be 3500 calories (12floz = 24 tablespoons * 119 calories = 2856 calories), even assuming I don't poop most of it out (as can be seen on Youtube videos). That doesn't change the fact that a tablespoon of olive oil contains 119 calories and up to a certain volume the human digestive tract will extract energy from it.

Second, I don't think three random people would gain the equivalent amount of weight; that's one of my points I've made elsewhere. TDEE for different people is different, based on height, weight (heavier people have higher TDEEs, which is ironic because it makes it easier for them to lose weight), and activity level. If you're talking three people of the same height, weight, strictly controlled activity level and strictly controlled intake, then I would expect their weight gain to be as close to identical as to make no difference. There's always some variance (within 200-300 Kcal: http://examine.com/faq/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-peop...)

Since we're cherry picking completely unrealistic intakes, I'll pose back to you: if three random people consumed 3500 calories worth of refined sugar, and that exceeded their TDEE by 3500 calories, then yes, each and every one of them would gain 1lb of adipose tissue. Seeing that many in the US easily approach an intake of this much refined sugar in the form of soda, the results (of the population, 2/3 is overweight, and 1/3 is obese) should not be surprising.

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#118

Post by tptacek »

npsimons wrote: post #117
tptacek wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The caloric content of olive oil is not virtually nil, and you can in fact consume a whole bottle of olive oil. Does "thermodynamics" dictate that you'll gain several pounds of fat after you do that? Your answer, of course, is "no". So just to move the conversation forwards: do you think if 3 random people consumed a bottle of olive oil, they would necessarily gain an equivalent amount of weight? Why or why not?

This question is facetious, almost as facetious as the "10,000 calories of sawdust". Almost. The human body can only process so much fat at once based on bile production. On top of all that, I would say no, I wouldn't gain several pounds of fat after consuming a whole bottle of olive oil because it wouldn't be 3500 calories (12floz = 24 tablespoons * 119 calories = 2856 calories), even assuming I don't poop most of i…

It's not my argument that the environment plays no role in obesity. It clearly does. I too think liquid calories are a major culprit.

I just think the "thermodynamics" argument oversimplifies immensely. Even the variance in resting metabolic rate is unlikely to capture the whole difference between multiple subjects consuming 3500 calories of oil (or, for that matter, bacon or butter), because resting metabolic rate captures the variance you'd see between people consuming refined sugar, and there are more variables involved in metabolizing fat.

Later, because this is bugging me a bit

And that's all before we get into satiety, which is a hormonal response. I had some cheese and rillettes for lunch. I'm not going to be hungry for the rest of the day. If I'd had the equivalent calories in carbohydrates, I'd be hungry in an hour. Upthread, the term "willpower" is being bandied about as if people can simply will themselves to eat a fixed number of calories. That's true only if you eat carefully, and if you don't have any hormonal dysfunction; it's as true as saying I could will myself into coding for 48 hours straight, if I just focussed my "will" on it.

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#119

Post by ozy123 »

mbubb wrote: post #21
jankor wrote: post #5

The full study is much more interesting: "We devised a machine-learning algorithm that integrates blood parameters, dietary habits, anthropometrics, physical activity, and gut microbiota measured in this cohort and showed that it accurately predicts personalized postprandial glycemic response to real-life meals." http://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(15)01481-6.pdf

Thank you for the link - the study is very interesting to read. I have been bumbling around for a while trying to see what fits for me and there have been counter-intuitive things that seem to work. This study makes me think of that. Part of diet is finding what works to keep things in balance, cravings and spikes might indicate the diet is not working. As an example - initially starting dieting, I stayed away from f…

What are you using to monitor spikes? Trying to locate something that would give continuous readings rather than manual testing after every meal.

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#120

Post by onion2k »

leshow wrote: post #102
onion2k wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one wants to admit it's their fault they got fat, but it always is. If that were the case then studies to find out why two people can eat the same thing and do the same amount of exercise yet one of them can end up fatter than the other wouldn't be necessary. It seems to be the case that, all external factors being equal, how fat you are can be determined by something outside of your control (genetics, gut microbe…

No they can't. While it's true that people's metabolisms vary widely, and the amount of calories for one individual to maintain weight might make another gain, it's not true that the weight gain is outside of their control. They have control over how much food they eat. If you're gaining weight, it means you're eating more than your body can burn, so you need to eat less. This is not as attractive an answer as "i jus…

If you're gaining weight, it means you're eating more than your body can burn, so you need to eat less.

Or your body is skipping the usable energy stage completely for some foods and storing them as fat directly without it ever having the chance to be used. Then some of the food you eat makes you gain weight regardless of the amount of activity you do - you just run out of energy and get fat.

The mistake you're making is assuming that humans are perfect machines for turning food in to energy, and simple mechanics means extra energy is stored as fat. It's far more complex than that.

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