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Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#101

Post by leshow »

ars wrote: post #2

This is pretty astonishing research, not so much for the results, as for the methodology. Doing research on what people eat is VERY hard, it's very hard to get accurate data. Pairing people and having them eat identically is brilliant. I hope it's also scalable for longer term studies. By pairing people they are likely to give much more accurate reports about what they actually eat, and it allows direct comparisons.

Except it doesn't in the realm of weight gain/loss. People's metabolisms vary by a wide margin, we could both eat exactly the same and I could lose weight, while you gain.

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#102

Post by leshow »

onion2k wrote: post #39
npsimons wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doing research on what people eat is VERY hard, it's very hard to get accurate data. AKA, don't bother with any studies with self-reported data. No one wants to admit it's their fault they got fat, but it always is.

No one wants to admit it's their fault they got fat, but it always is. If that were the case then studies to find out why two people can eat the same thing and do the same amount of exercise yet one of them can end up fatter than the other wouldn't be necessary. It seems to be the case that, all external factors being equal, how fat you are can be determined by something outside of your control (genetics, gut microbe…

No they can't.

While it's true that people's metabolisms vary widely, and the amount of calories for one individual to maintain weight might make another gain, it's not true that the weight gain is outside of their control. They have control over how much food they eat.

If you're gaining weight, it means you're eating more than your body can burn, so you need to eat less.

This is not as attractive an answer as "i just have the wrong gut microbiota" but it's far more accurate.

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#103

Post by taurath »

merpnderp wrote: post #96
jrcii wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Counting calories _always_ works for weight loss. If you simply eat fewer calories than your body needs each day, you will lose weight. Funny you should say that when this was just published today: http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/01/why-the-calorie-is-br...

Funny because eating 2000 calories of a carb rich diet maintains my weight, but eating 3000 calories of a carb poor diet and I lose weight. All calories aren't the same, and your body doesn't use them the same. Why is this still controversial?

Because people won't let go of their heuristics, and also the shame and judgement they put on people for being overweight (most of the time, originating in how people treat themselves when overweight).

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#104

Post by tptacek »

npsimons wrote: post #94
cgh wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To elaborate upon this point, let's say I gave you 10,000 calories of sawdust to eat every day for a week. Would you gain weight or lose weight, ignoring the other health consequences?

The question is moot; sawdust is basically pure undigestible fiber (poor mans Metamucil), so since the caloric content of it is virtually nil, it would be impossible to consume 10,000 calories of it.

The caloric content of olive oil is not virtually nil, and you can in fact consume a whole bottle of olive oil. Does "thermodynamics" dictate that you'll gain several pounds of fat after you do that?

Your answer, of course, is "no". So just to move the conversation forwards: do you think if 3 random people consumed a bottle of olive oil, they would necessarily gain an equivalent amount of weight? Why or why not?

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#105

Post by ashark »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #70
randlet wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did the 1300 calories a day number come from? How big is the person that number is for? What is their activity level?

I made it up completely as an example. I used to exercise 3-4 days a week. Lifting weights, cardio, and yoga. I wasn't losing weight. I started gradually counting and cutting calories and when it didn't help I cut more. The only way I was at a good weight was on 1400 calories/day. This made me completely miserable and anti social (I wouldn't eat outside my house). This may be sustainable for some, but it wasn't for m…

Very similar experience here! 4K+ calorie daily average mostly of junk food from ages ~15-21, maybe 30 minutes/day average of weightlifting, rarely some cardio, visible upper ab muscles, call it a "4 pack", full on six-pack abs if I happened to be slightly more active in a week (a few hours of casual swimming, for instance).

Then I decided I wanted to cut down to the six-pack bodyfat level and stay there, so for the initial "cut" phase of that plan I dieted at ~1400 calories a day, every single day (no cheating) for ~2-3 months, and started doing way more cardio. Only lost a couple pounds, little or no visible difference, so, confused and frustrated, I gave up. Makes no damn sense according to any "weight loss calculator" I've ever seen (which all claim that my BMR should sit in the low 2000s), but that's what happened.

Packed on fat immediately when I went back to my usual eating patterns, took me years to get that under control. To this day I seem to easily hit a plateau a bit over what I'd call my healthy range when dieting at any reasonable (not near or under starvation level) caloric intake.

OTOH I've found that strength training's more effective for me than it "ought" to be but requires time, which sucks. I'd love to be able to diet my way to a trim waist, since maintaining an intake under what weight loss tables/calculators say should work for me is something I find easy to do. Too bad it doesn't.

Don't know what the explanation is, but something weirder than the "calories in/calories out, and calories out is fairly easy to guesstimate with useful accurately" orthodoxy is going on.

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#106

Post by vinceguidry »

rayiner wrote: post #76
mtviewdave wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...being overweight is still your fault Citation needed. The ability of human beings to control their biology through willpower is limited (if you don't believe me, try holding your breath for 30 minutes, or not drinking anything for a few days). Willpower itself is limited, and motivation is itself influenced by mental health. And diseases like Prader-Willi and Emery-Dreifuss demonstrate situations in which motivat…

> In the 19th century, when painkillers first started becoming available, physicians would refuse to give them to woman in childbirth, because the Bible says childbirth is supposed to be painful. Women had sinned, therefore they must suffer. This is a great analogy. "It's your fault" is not a public health policy, it's a cop-out. And it doesn't even make sense. Obesity is rising dramatically in developed countries. I…

> This is a great analogy. "It's your fault" is not a public health policy, it's a cop-out.

A cop-out from what, exactly? Does society have a responsibility to make everyone thin?

Even if you say it does, how would you propose it goes about doing that? There's no scalable, organizable effort you can take that will make fat people thin.

If you say we have to throw more money at research, I say, sure, we should! Along with every other worthy cause. Where we're going to get the money, I've no idea. If you do, that's a completely different kind of argument.

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#107

Post by leshow »

xenadu02 wrote: post #67
randlet wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's tough to hear but no matter what your genetics or internal flora are, being overweight is still your fault . It may not be "fair" that someone puts on less weight than someone else eating the same diet, but ultimately you're the one responsible for maintaining your own weight (by controlling what you put in your mouth) no matter what the state of your gut microbes. edit: not picking on you Onion2k...I end up com…

Having been 330 lbs at one point and now being less than 220 you're both right and wrong at the same time. Your statement is the equivalent of saying its a heroin junkies own fault: Technically true but useless. It also has many parallels in the way you grew up, differing genetics, etc. If it were just a matter of willpower or simply eating less then I would already be my ideal weight. It isn't that simple. You can't…

> At least a drug addict doesn't have to take just the /right/ amount of the drug every day to stay healthy!

spoken like someone with no experience with drug addiction. ever heard of a maintenance program?

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#108

Post by npsimons »

leshow wrote: post #102
onion2k wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one wants to admit it's their fault they got fat, but it always is. If that were the case then studies to find out why two people can eat the same thing and do the same amount of exercise yet one of them can end up fatter than the other wouldn't be necessary. It seems to be the case that, all external factors being equal, how fat you are can be determined by something outside of your control (genetics, gut microbe…

No they can't. While it's true that people's metabolisms vary widely, and the amount of calories for one individual to maintain weight might make another gain, it's not true that the weight gain is outside of their control. They have control over how much food they eat. If you're gaining weight, it means you're eating more than your body can burn, so you need to eat less. This is not as attractive an answer as "i jus…

> If you're gaining weight, it means you're eating more than your body can burn, so you need to eat less.

This is spot on. So you have a slow metabolism/bad genetics/conditions/etc? Sucks to be you. Sorry. It's like that saying by Schneier about copy protection and the speed of light. If you want to lose weight, adjust your intake downwards. That's all it takes. Hungry/craving something? Try substituting something more filling (less calorie dense), or eating a little bit to see if that makes the craving go away.

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#109

Post by leshow »

anu7df wrote: post #46
xyzzy4 wrote: post #41

Well the biggest reason people put on weight is because they don't understand how calories work from a lack of education, which is why poor people and immigrants generally become the most overweight. People who don't speak English well won't run into scientific articles that talk about calories, so they aren't even thinking about the subject.

Most people don't understand calories as it relates to their food intake. However lack of education has very little to do with it. Just look at all the comments in this thread. The things that can be said to be true are: Thermodynamics is correct.. People consuming same amount of food may end up absorbing different calories from it. They also may burn calories at slightly different rates. This is all very helpful but…

I would assume education would cover differences in individual metabolism, so you'd know if you were gaining weight to consume less food.

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#110

Post by aaxe »

mtviewdave wrote: post #65
randlet wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's tough to hear but no matter what your genetics or internal flora are, being overweight is still your fault . It may not be "fair" that someone puts on less weight than someone else eating the same diet, but ultimately you're the one responsible for maintaining your own weight (by controlling what you put in your mouth) no matter what the state of your gut microbes. edit: not picking on you Onion2k...I end up com…

>...being overweight is still your fault Citation needed. The ability of human beings to control their biology through willpower is limited (if you don't believe me, try holding your breath for 30 minutes, or not drinking anything for a few days). Willpower itself is limited, and motivation is itself influenced by mental health. And diseases like Prader-Willi and Emery-Dreifuss demonstrate situations in which motivat…

Did you just compare holding your breath for 30m to not eating?

Fail.

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