Why do people put on differing amounts of weight? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#81

Post by randlet » Tue, Jan 26, 2016, 6:42 PM UTC

randlet wrote: post #40

onion2k wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one wants to admit it's their fault they got fat, but it always is. If that were the case then studies to find out why two people can eat the same thing and do the same amount of exercise yet one of them can end up fatter than the other wouldn't be necessary. It seems to be the case that, all external factors being equal, how fat you are can be determined by something outside of your control (genetics, gut microbe…

It's tough to hear but no matter what your genetics or internal flora are, being overweight is still your fault . It may not be "fair" that someone puts on less weight than someone else eating the same diet, but ultimately you're the one responsible for maintaining your own weight (by controlling what you put in your mouth) no matter what the state of your gut microbes. edit: not picking on you Onion2k...I end up com…

Based on all this discussion I regret using the phrase "it's your fault" which sounds too aggressive. Instead I wish I just emphasized that regardless of biological and societal pressures everyone of us does possess the ability to control your weight. Specifically by accurately counting calories (with a food scale) and tracking your weight you can adjust your caloric intake to lose, gain or maintain weight.

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#82

Post by artimaeis » Tue, Jan 26, 2016, 6:49 PM UTC

jrcii wrote: post #73

BeowulfCluster wrote: post #69

This is interesting, but people shouldn't be misled. Counting calories _always_ works for weight loss. If you simply eat fewer calories than your body needs each day, you will lose weight. There was a very highly cited paper in the NEJM where they studied a group of people who believed they were "diet resistant" using a new technique--doubly labeled water--to determine how much they were really eating and exercising.…

>Counting calories _always_ works for weight loss. If you simply eat fewer calories than your body needs each day, you will lose weight. Funny you should say that when this was just published today: http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/01/why-the-calorie-is-br...

If I read that article correctly it seemed to be pointing out that sometimes calories are literally mislabeled. That is - a sandwich from a vendor may be labeled as 400 kcal but actually it turns out it was closer to 500 kcal. Casey Neistat did a special for the NYT a couple of years ago about this very problem [1]. The ArsTechnica article you linked did go into other things - but there's definitely a difficulty in dealing with things where labels say one thing and can be 10-15% wrong pretty easily.

[1]: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/13/opinion/calorie-detective....

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#83

Post by pbhjpbhj » Tue, Jan 26, 2016, 6:50 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #76

mtviewdave wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...being overweight is still your fault Citation needed. The ability of human beings to control their biology through willpower is limited (if you don't believe me, try holding your breath for 30 minutes, or not drinking anything for a few days). Willpower itself is limited, and motivation is itself influenced by mental health. And diseases like Prader-Willi and Emery-Dreifuss demonstrate situations in which motivat…

> In the 19th century, when painkillers first started becoming available, physicians would refuse to give them to woman in childbirth, because the Bible says childbirth is supposed to be painful. Women had sinned, therefore they must suffer. This is a great analogy. "It's your fault" is not a public health policy, it's a cop-out. And it doesn't even make sense. Obesity is rising dramatically in developed countries. I…

>Obesity is peoples' fault in the same way car accidents are. That doesn't mean the proper response is to simply blame people, instead of using science to devise solutions. //

But if obesity is primarily the fault of the person who is obese lacking will power then shouldn't we start by doing things directly addressing this.

For example, I snack late at night - except when there are no snacks in the house. Sometimes I'll still make food, but mainly I'll just wander around feeling tetchy and eventually get distracted enough to not think about it. For me it absolutely is lack of willpower (which is much better recently probably due to antidepressant meds) to avoid eating things I know aren't healthy for me; or indeed just to eat less in general.

If we're looking to prime cause then for me willpower seemingly fits the bill, as you say that revelation may not help to fix things for me - if I can do outdoor pursuits for a week then I can lose weight no problems! - but healthcare workers looking to help me should perhaps seek ways to enforce diet that don't rely on my willpower so much rather than just ignore willpower deficiency altogether?

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#84

Post by nommm-nommm » Tue, Jan 26, 2016, 6:50 PM UTC

randlet wrote: post #81

randlet wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's tough to hear but no matter what your genetics or internal flora are, being overweight is still your fault . It may not be "fair" that someone puts on less weight than someone else eating the same diet, but ultimately you're the one responsible for maintaining your own weight (by controlling what you put in your mouth) no matter what the state of your gut microbes. edit: not picking on you Onion2k...I end up com…

Based on all this discussion I regret using the phrase "it's your fault" which sounds too aggressive. Instead I wish I just emphasized that regardless of biological and societal pressures everyone of us does possess the ability to control your weight. Specifically by accurately counting calories (with a food scale) and tracking your weight you can adjust your caloric intake to lose, gain or maintain weight.

>everyone of us does possess the ability to control your weight.

Yes, buy only to a degree.

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#85

Post by npsimons » Tue, Jan 26, 2016, 6:52 PM UTC

logfromblammo wrote: post #47

onion2k wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one wants to admit it's their fault they got fat, but it always is. If that were the case then studies to find out why two people can eat the same thing and do the same amount of exercise yet one of them can end up fatter than the other wouldn't be necessary. It seems to be the case that, all external factors being equal, how fat you are can be determined by something outside of your control (genetics, gut microbe…

Without it being entirely their fault. I know I am at least partially at fault for being fat. I sit on ass all day and rarely exercise. That certainly doesn't help . But I also know that several of the reasons for obesity do not originate in the frontal lobe of the brain, and are therefore not the result of conscious decision-making. And that absolves me from some fraction of the burden of culpability. But not the wh…

> Continually reiterating the thermodynamic dietary hypothesis to me (energy eaten minus energy expended) does not help.

There are those who would deny it, unto their dying breath. You do not appear to be one of them, and that's the first step. The saying I like is that weight loss is simple (subtext: simple to understand), but not easy (subtext: not easy to execute). Sure, there are tonnes of factors that go into what causes someone to overeat. And fad diets, or even the whole concept of "dieting" need to DIAF (it's lifestyle changes or nothing). And shaming people for being fat might actually be counterproductive. But being at a healthy weight is there for the taking, if you want it. If you choose not to be a healthy weight, fair enough. Just don't complain when you have to (rightfully) pay for two airplane tickets because you take up that much space.

And just for the record, there are many of us for whom weight loss had nothing to do with good fortune. We were fat, we had bad eating habits (snacking unconsciously, bingeing on soda, etc, etc). We've been there, we recognized what caused us to be fat, and we turned it around through hard work and perseverence. Didn't even have to get a gut biome implant or exercise like a fiend, just simple reduction of intake.

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#86

Post by undersuit » Tue, Jan 26, 2016, 6:55 PM UTC

nommm-nommm wrote: post #74

cgh wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To elaborate upon this point, let's say I gave you 10,000 calories of sawdust to eat every day for a week. Would you gain weight or lose weight, ignoring the other health consequences?

Similar - I saw an episode of Superfat vs Superskinny where the superskinny guy ate almost nothing but chocolate. His calorie intake was probably 4000 calories a day or more yet he was unhealthy skinny. Do you think he was lying?

I did not watch this show so I have are some questions.

  1. Was the skinny individual monitored the entire time? He could have regurgitated his food. 

  2. Was the skinny person's poop analyzed for complete digestion of the 4000 calories?

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#87

Post by npsimons » Tue, Jan 26, 2016, 7:01 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #39

npsimons wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doing research on what people eat is VERY hard, it's very hard to get accurate data. AKA, don't bother with any studies with self-reported data. No one wants to admit it's their fault they got fat, but it always is.

No one wants to admit it's their fault they got fat, but it always is. If that were the case then studies to find out why two people can eat the same thing and do the same amount of exercise yet one of them can end up fatter than the other wouldn't be necessary. It seems to be the case that, all external factors being equal, how fat you are can be determined by something outside of your control (genetics, gut microbe…

Every single time someone says "I eat the same as them" it's been shown to be self-reported, and therefore not verifiable in the least, including this current study. There's a show called "Secret Eaters", you should really check it out. People lie, to themselves included, about how much they eat and how much they exercise. Add to this a 4ft woman will not have the same BMR as a 6ft man, and there's no reason to go searching for some external influence.

There are psychological issues, to be sure, but except for rare exceptions (like Crohn's and extreme outliers, ie, not common) people of the same height and weight are within 200-300Kcal of each other BMR wise (source: http://examine.com/faq/does-metabolism-vary-between-two-peop...)

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#88

Post by defen » Tue, Jan 26, 2016, 7:03 PM UTC

BeowulfCluster wrote: post #77

stevedt wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how your body reacts to food has an effect on how hungry you get. It's easier to eat fewer calories if you aren't as hungry. And the whole point of the article is that we differ significantly on how are bodies respond to food.

Agreed. But obese people need to understand the basics first (EAT LESS!) and then they can tweak their diets to make them more comfortable with fewer calories.

If it was really that simple, don't you think people would already do it? Your advice comes across as pretty sanctimonious. It's the equivalent of shouting at heroin addicts "STOP TAKING HEROIN!"

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#89

Post by aantix » Tue, Jan 26, 2016, 7:06 PM UTC

randlet wrote: post #81

randlet wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's tough to hear but no matter what your genetics or internal flora are, being overweight is still your fault . It may not be "fair" that someone puts on less weight than someone else eating the same diet, but ultimately you're the one responsible for maintaining your own weight (by controlling what you put in your mouth) no matter what the state of your gut microbes. edit: not picking on you Onion2k...I end up com…

Based on all this discussion I regret using the phrase "it's your fault" which sounds too aggressive. Instead I wish I just emphasized that regardless of biological and societal pressures everyone of us does possess the ability to control your weight. Specifically by accurately counting calories (with a food scale) and tracking your weight you can adjust your caloric intake to lose, gain or maintain weight.

It's just not the simple. The body fights back with a caloric reduction either through drowsiness, reduced thyroid, and hunger pains. The body wants to maintain.

It's easy to posit so that some people's responses may be more intense than others.

Re: Why do people put on differing amounts of weight?

#90

Post by npsimons » Tue, Jan 26, 2016, 7:07 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #83

rayiner wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the 19th century, when painkillers first started becoming available, physicians would refuse to give them to woman in childbirth, because the Bible says childbirth is supposed to be painful. Women had sinned, therefore they must suffer. This is a great analogy. "It's your fault" is not a public health policy, it's a cop-out. And it doesn't even make sense. Obesity is rising dramatically in developed countries. I…

>Obesity is peoples' fault in the same way car accidents are. That doesn't mean the proper response is to simply blame people, instead of using science to devise solutions. // But if obesity is primarily the fault of the person who is obese lacking will power then shouldn't we start by doing things directly addressing this. For example, I snack late at night - except when there are no snacks in the house. Sometimes I…

> But if obesity is primarily the fault of the person who is obese lacking will power then shouldn't we start by doing things directly addressing this.

Yes, we should. The average weight has gone up far faster than humans can change genetically, so people start looking for things like gut flora or epigenetics. Occam's razor would point to the average supermarket and restaurant selection of today versus a few generations ago to explain the obesity epidemic. Cheaper, faster, tastier food (capitalism optimizes for these three qualities in food), and more riveting, less active indoor pursuits can easily explain it. That's not to say the research is worthless, but gut biome most likely influences subconscious cravings, not BMR, and epigenetics is still young enough that many biologists think that pulling conclusions from research into it is premature at best.